A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

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musicmania
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by musicmania » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:49 pm

Christiane wrote:My first impulse was "Oh, I'd like to buy one of the reels." We even own an old 16mm projector, So we could be lucky
and be able to view the film.
But my second thought was that it's absolutely false to split the reels up. I agree with Sue that the reels should be kept
together and be given to the library that owns Leonard's papers. As far as I know that is the University of Toronto.

Christiane
I agree. Strangely Toronto was recommended me today as a place to visit. Can anyone view these papers?

Isn't Tony getting money from the sale of the DVD Vince? I get what you are saying and it would be a unique piece of memorabilia but it is a piece of a whole and the whole should stay together. Initially I did think great but in hindsight maybe not. I still feel uncomfortable about how Leonard would feel regardless of the fact he gave them to Tony. That to me does matter. As you say though the decision is for Steve and Tony.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by TipperaryAnn » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:00 am

Who will want to view these reels again, now that the film has been released, warts and all. ( The biggest wart being the inclusion of that totally unnecessary war footage. ) DVD is much more accessible than film. Better to give them a dignified resting place together rather than being split up and sold as part of one of the many enterprises that have sprung up around LC's talent.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by MarieM » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 am

This offer to sell off each reel individually brings to mind King Solomon with his sword ready to divide the baby. I can think of no better way to get a single buyer to up their offer than with the threat of sending the reels out into the four corners of the world. Fans would only be benefited if the reels stay together. Dividing the ownership of the reels does nothing but destroy the product. The reels could also be donated to a university so all fans could enjoy them permanently, as Leonard is doing with his own archives.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by bene449 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:39 am

"I still feel uncomfortable about how Leonard would feel regardless of the fact he gave them to Tony".

Hi Musicmania,
Thanks for your comments. If Leonard was happy about this, would you be happy for these reels to be sold off, individually?

On another note, and this is to everyone, if you feel that all these reels should be kept together, why don't one of you buy them all and keep them locked up at home.

If Leonard had a problem with this sale, I am sure Robert Kory or Sony would have contacted me by now.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by bene449 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:48 am

Marie,
I think you should study the history of these reels first. Sony have already tried to buy them at a high price but were turned down. That's why they tried to take legal action against Tony Palmer/ Steve Machat. You will notice that Sony have now gone quiet on this, because these reels rightly belong to Tony and Steve.
Sony are not the only big organisation that have tried to buy these reels.

It is very simple to sit there and say the reels should be kept together and made available for viewing by fans, but no-one has come up with a proper suggestion of a place big enough. Give me the details of a place and a contact name and telephone number and i will phone them tomorrow morning to assess their interest.

Please send details of these places/name of manager/tel no to vince@leonardcohencafe.co.uk
I am off to drink some red wine and watch the snow.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by scubasam » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:52 am

bene449 wrote:
If Leonard had a problem with this sale, I am sure Robert Kory or Sony would have contacted me by now.
Why are you so sure of this? If LC gave them to someone, he may not feel he has a right to interfere as they no longer belong to him. Still doesn't mean that splitting them up is the right or moral thing to do.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by musicmania » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:09 am

bene449 wrote: Hi Musicmania,
Thanks for your comments. If Leonard was happy about this, would you be happy for these reels to be sold off, individually?
Well lets just say happier than I am now.
bene449 wrote:It is very simple to sit there and say the reels should be kept together and made available for viewing by fans, but no-one has come up with a proper suggestion of a place big enough. Give me the details of a place and a contact name and telephone number and i will phone them tomorrow morning to assess their interest.

Please send details of these places/name of manager/tel no to vince@leonardcohencafe.co.uk
I am off to drink some red wine and watch the snow.
Christiane did mention the University of Toronto. Can you confirm if that is where the archives are Marie? It should be looked into Vince. Surely you can see where we are coming from here. Leave aside what may or may not have happened with Steve and Tony with Sony and think about this like I have done. Imagine 280 fans buying these reels and them never being heard of again. Think of this too it would be the fans who could afford it that would buy them and is that fair to poorer fans? I really don't think Leonard would like it to be done like this.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by Mabeanie1 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:17 am

MarieM wrote:The reels could also be donated to a university so all fans could enjoy them permanently, as Leonard is doing with his own archives.
Absolutely. It is pointless and meaningless to split the reels. I would rather see them sold to Sony to keep them together if no archival institution wants them than see them broken up, though I can of course see why Tony and Steve would not want to do this ......

Will there ever be an end to the various "goings on" with this film I wonder?

Wendy
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by musicmania » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:24 am

Mabeanie1 wrote:
MarieM wrote:The reels could also be donated to a university so all fans could enjoy them permanently, as Leonard is doing with his own archives.
Absolutely. It is pointless and meaningless to split the reels. I would rather see them sold to Sony to keep them together if no archival institution wants them than see them broken up, though I can of course see why Tony and Steve would not want to do this ......

Will there ever be an end to the various "goings on" with this film I wonder?

Wendy
Well I checked both Amazon sites last night and it is available in the UK but not the US. It says it is not available due to licensing it is currently unavailable in the US.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by Maarten » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:27 am

musicmania wrote:Christiane did mention the University of Toronto. Can you confirm if that is where the archives are Marie?
Leonard Cohen's stuff is definitely stored in Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5629

This would be a good place to keep the reels IF we would like them to be kept together. When I was in Helsinki with Jarkko, I (very briefly) asked him what would happen with his collection of collectables, books etc... after he passed away and he did mention thinking about the T. Fisher Library, although it was only a quick thought... I myself would gladly offer my stuff to the library if ever it's time to go myself...

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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by MarieM » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:34 am

I myself would gladly offer my stuff to the library if ever it's time to go myself...
As will I, Maarten.

Thanks for the link to the section on Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library, Maarten. I was just researching that thread and found this exact page:

http://fisher.library.utoronto.ca/resou ... lections-c

Scroll to Cohen, Leonard and you can even view what is there. And contact info is at the bottom of the page with email, phone, etc.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by musicmania » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:02 am

Maarten wrote:
musicmania wrote:Christiane did mention the University of Toronto. Can you confirm if that is where the archives are Marie?
Leonard Cohen's stuff is definitely stored in Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5629

This would be a good place to keep the reels IF we would like them to be kept together. When I was in Helsinki with Jarkko, I (very briefly) asked him what would happen with his collection of collectables, books etc... after he passed away and he did mention thinking about the T. Fisher Library, although it was only a quick thought... I myself would gladly offer my stuff to the library if ever it's time to go myself...

Maarten
Thanks so much for this Maarten. Just been reading the page you mention Marie. Fascinating. What I would give to be able to look at some of this though I hope I'll never be able to look at box 13. It pained me just to read about it.
I remember seeing a french documentary of Leonard when he was on Mount Baldy and he came down to his office and he pointed at a huge pile of boxes and said it was all his work. I wonder are they the same boxes.
Definitely a good place for the reels and I'd gladly offer my small collection there too.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by bene449 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:02 am

if ever i go, I have instructed my children to sell everything and use the proceeds to bring up my future grandchildren. I haven't spent a small fortune on memorabilia so that it can be kept in a vault in Toronto.
I will speak to Steve and Tony next week and discuss what their wishes are.
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by sturgess66 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:09 pm

bene449 wrote:Marie,
...
It is very simple to sit there and say the reels should be kept together and made available for viewing by fans, but no-one has come up with a proper suggestion of a place big enough. Give me the details of a place and a contact name and telephone number and i will phone them tomorrow morning to assess their interest.

Please send details of these places/name of manager/tel no to vince@leonardcohencafe.co.uk
Just wondering - was contact made with University of Toronto - Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library?

Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library
120 St George Street, Toronto, Ontario
M5S 1A5
416-978-6107

Director - Richard Landon (416) 978-6107
Email - richard.landon@utoronto.ca

Assistant Director - Anne Dondertman (416) 978-5332
Email - anne.dondertman@utoronto.ca
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Re: A part of history for sale (Bird on a Wire)

Post by neo » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:53 pm

I wouldn't trust Sony being the right place for giving the reels a good home and I don't like the idea of the individual reels being some kind of high grade memorabilia in some collectors closets.
I like the idea that the reels should be kept together at the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library, or if they won't be interested in it, or not willing to pay a reasonable price for them, maybe another film archive will serve as a good home.

Jonas Mekas' Anthology Film Archives, maybe?
http://anthologyfilmarchives.org/
http://anthologyfilmarchives.org/about/about
http://anthologyfilmarchives.org/contact/staff
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