"Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
Rain
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Rain » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:29 pm

I have removed my prior post. Sorry I used big scary print in the old post, but I really think this song should be left alone and NOT have other lyrics put to it. This song really has nothing to do with Christianity. Sorry, but it doesn't. I didn't mean to "flame" the artist on the forum. Sorry.

---Rain
Last edited by Rain on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Wilcox
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Steve Wilcox » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:42 pm

Wow, that was bad. Real bad. But if she bothered to write all those so-called "lyrics" then why not put them to original music?

What's next you ask? Apparently she's rewriting Serge Gainsbourg's "Je T'aime" to make it more suitable for next Sunday's Mass (retitled "Jesus, Je T'aime"), and then, for Christmas services maybe she will rewrite the lyrics for the The Beatles' White Album.

My advice to her - leave this planet's classic songs alone.
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Violet
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Violet » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:16 pm

bridger15 wrote:
Violet wrote:.. well, they strike a "secret chord," if I may..
@Violet. A secret chord for you.
http://blog.the-scientist.com/2010/11/05/secret-chord/

---Arlene
.. holy mokes, I love this idea, although I agree with the poster who thought that maybe there should be sound accompanying this little video.


thanks, A.,
v. x

later edit: just removed what feels to be extraneous at this point.
Last edited by Violet on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Violet
John Etherington
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by John Etherington » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:18 pm

Actually, it's not a bad thing that Leonard's name may be credited for all-time in the church hymnal, though some may think it's just another Kelley ripping him off!
Rain
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Rain » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:23 pm

'Hallelujah' could easily be put into a hymnal, as could "If it Be Your Will".......if THAT song isn't a hymn, I don't know what is........

For 'Hallelujah',you might have to omit the "...she tied you to a kitchen chair...." verse out, for most easily-shocked churches..... :shock: .
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Violet
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Violet » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:34 pm

Rain wrote:'Hallelujah' could easily be put into a hymnal, as could "If it Be Your Will".......if THAT song isn't a hymn, I don't know what is........

For 'Hallelujah',you might have to omit the "...she tied you to a kitchen chair...." verse out, for most easily-shocked churches..... :shock: .
.. I don't know.. to me, if this song is in some sense a supplication to God, it really has more to do with one's kitchen, than the church.. the idea that we're even having this conversation as if to question whether its "worthiness" should be "allowed" in church almost, tells us more about what's wrong with the church, than with the song.. (why do I feel as though I'm going around in circles?.. where's that rope.. need to tie a few things down in here.. Leonard.. keep still a sec.. be right there)..
Violet
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Violet
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Violet » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:49 pm

much later note: I really shouldn't be looking back at this thread.. anyway, this is the only line I like from the original post of mine:

.. I am now converting to Judaism, with a Sufi twist, and a splash of lavender.

[I would add that the other nonsense I had here was not picked up on in later conversation on this thread, so I think I'm okay in deleting it]
Last edited by Violet on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John Etherington
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by John Etherington » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:00 am

...another thought - it's nothing new for the church to borrow tunes from popular music. I seem to remember singing the Everley Brothers "Devoted to You" at Sunday School, fifty years ago!
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Puddingdale
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Puddingdale » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:12 pm

There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all? If prayer shouldn't be about life as well, why pray?
Alternatively, she should simply have taken the non-worldly stanzas and left out the rest. No need to clumsily turn it into a Christian song - and a banal one.
So either bow to the original or simply take If it be your will as was suggested before - I have made people read it in a church as a prayer and no one was offended, on the contrary. Of course, no kitchen chair there. But I am working on getting people used to more worldly lyrics... 8)
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TipperaryAnn
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by TipperaryAnn » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:59 pm

Puddingdale wrote:There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all?
Typical of the puritanical attitude to sexuality in the Roman Catholic church - any reference even remotely connected with sex is taboo. (Assuming it is that church from the reference to "priest" ) However, I think that the "holy dove moving" verse would bother them more than the kitchen chair! :roll:
Forget your perfect offering -
There is a crack in everything...
Rain
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Rain » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:58 pm

Violet wrote:
.. I don't know.. to me, if this song is in some sense a supplication to God, it really has more to do with one's kitchen, than the church.. the idea that we're even having this conversation as if to question whether its "worthiness" should be "allowed" in church almost, tells us more about what's wrong with the church, than with the song.. (why do I feel as though I'm going around in circles?.. where's that rope.. need to tie a few things down in here.. Leonard.. keep still a sec.. be right there)..
[/quote]

Good points. Actually, 'Hallelujah' has so many layers to it, spiritual, sexual, yeah, most churches would not consider it a hymn. I call Mr. Cohen a modern-day 'secular psalmist', because a lot of his lyrics, especially those of a sensual nature remind me, poetically speaking, of The Song of Solomon (which I also doubt most churches would make into a hymn to be sung in a service!) As I said, I wouldn't have a problem singing it as a hymn, but most mainstream churches would, it's too suggestive I guess :razz:
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Puddingdale
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Puddingdale » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:57 pm

TipperaryAnn wrote: Puddingdale wrote:There would be nothing wrong with the church borrowing that tune. But why not leave it as it is? Kitchen chair and all?



Typical of the puritanical attitude to sexuality in the Roman Catholic church - any reference even remotely connected with sex is taboo. (Assuming it is that church from the reference to "priest" ) However, I think that the "holy dove moving" verse would bother them more than the kitchen chair! :roll:
I know, I am a Roman Catholic and still I stand by my word. I would leave the song as it is or not use it at all. Why not confront a congregation with other ways of thinking and see what happens. Even if it makes them angry, at least it will make them think about their religious feelings. If ever I manage to convince my parish priest to preach on Hallelujah, I will let you know ;-) So far, I have got no further than having If it be your will read at a christmas concert. Too unprovocative and really a hymn, I know. But at least I did not mess with poetry or make clumsy rhymes just to make a "contribution."
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secretchord
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by secretchord » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:36 am

Violet wrote:
.. well, they strike a "secret chord," if I may..

hi
...that David played and it pleased the Lord...


http://www.myspace.com/morrinmusic
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Violet
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by Violet » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:21 am

.. uh.. didn't mean to strike you.. of course, it was supposed to be a secret, I thought.. (so much for secrets around here)..

.. (Leonard, shush.. it's just that secretchord acting up again.. oh, you want those tighter?).. (my god)..
Violet
imaginary friend
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Re: "Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Liturgically Correct"

Post by imaginary friend » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:59 pm

Hi Vi
Hi Arlene
Hi Everyone else here,

Yah yah, the church is about community and all that, but IMO, the experience that Leonard sings about in Hallelujah is an experience one comes to on one's own. That programming of people, especially when they're very young; that censorship or dilution of anything that doesn't 'fit' the chosen didactic, has always been my grouse with the church...

Arlene, I love the secret chord sculpture, and really enjoyed the time-lapse video of its installation!

(V, as you can see, I'm still in a threesome with elipses and italics...)
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