How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

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table top joe
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby table top joe » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:30 pm

This is a good idea,when i read the news this morning i was horrified,then i wondered how long before some "fan" would post it,i have no intention of viewing this,i wouldnt want to see Leonard(or anyone else for that matter)in distress,anyway ive flagged the video as well,why does anyone need to see this?


For anyone arguing that its censership or whatever,its not,its just common decency and respect for the man



Hope he gets well soon
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Bequia
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby Bequia » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:36 pm

table top joe wrote:For anyone arguing that its censership or whatever,its not,its just common decency and respect for the man
Leonard has been quite generous in permitting us to openly use our cameras at his concerts despite the "no camera/recording device" rule stated on tickets (at least the ones to the shows I have seen). The favor should be returned.
....all men will be sailors then....
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martali
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby martali » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:38 pm

Yes, I've flagged this Valencia clip too because it is so painful and scaring to watch it for me.
:cry:
But I think that the most right person to demand removing it from YouTube is Mr Kory, Leonard's manager.

And I'm sure he won't hesitate to contact the YouTube team to make an adequate complaint if they find it should be removed.

Marta
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sturgess66
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby sturgess66 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:57 pm

I read about the video here this morning and then I did watch it. I feared for the worst - but I have to say – I was greatly relieved. I think our wonderful Leonard Cohen handled his collapse as well as he could – as he does with everything - with great dignity. The video also captures the immediate reaction of all those on stage who love and care about him. And really - that is all there was. Well – not quite. There is Leonard’s performance at the beginning of this song which is quite remarkable, given how he must have been feeling. And the gorgeous guitar of Bob Metzger. All in all though – I think there is nothing untoward – other than a video – not even really close up – capturing someone falling ill/fainting on stage – at a concert.

Of course, for those of us who love Leonard Cohen, the news itself yesterday, that he was ill, was bad enough. And the video - initially - can be horribly upsetting and painful to watch – and it is upsetting to know that this video is out there, that captures such a vulnerable and sensitive moment when Leonard was ill - for the whole world to watch. But really – the video is not that bad. IMO Also – fortunately, the title of the video “Leonard Cohen faints in Valencia during concert” is not fraught with sensationalism. The event has been reported in the media – extensively – and if this is “all they’ve got” – then I am glad! Reports are that Leonard is feeling much better now. Hallelujah!

Just as a way of putting this in some perspective, in 1992, President George Herbert Walker Bush (67 years old at the time) was in Japan at a dinner with Japanese Prime Minister Miyazawa Kiichi. He, too, was suffering from flu symptoms or possibly food poisoning as a result of eating some bad sushi and cameras captured him actually vomiting. He was spared nothing by most of the major networks who delighted in showing video of the event– and of course – there is video on YouTube – and the comedy shows subsequently had a field day. Here is an account of the remarkably similar type of incident - in the New York Times. His unfortunate experience was much worse (from the point of view of publicity) and he obviously suffered embarrassment and he apologized immediately afterward – but developed a sense of humor as time passed when questioned about the incident.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/09/world ... gewanted=1

And President Bush obviously recovered from the stomach upset since he recently celebrated his 85th birthday by skydiving from a plane – :lol:
http://www.everest-skydive.com/blog/geo ... h-skydive/

I did post a comment there at YouTube for the sake that of anyone reading who may be genuinely concerned about Leonard – and also for the sake of just stating the facts - saying that Leonard was suffering from food poisoning but was fine now, and that the concert in Barcelona would proceed as scheduled. And I quoted a bit from this morning’s AP release saying that Leonard was fine. I doubt very much that YouTube would remove the video. In comparison to some of the horror that people post there – this is nothing. I tried to get FaceBook to remove untoward comments on a musician's site once and FaceBook had a place to report violations but they did nothing. Fortunately the musician had the ability to remove the comments and that is how it was achieved. I don't think an individual or artist can do that on YouTube - unless there are copyright violations - or possibly something terribly odious. Fortunately, this video does not even come close to that. It is just somewhat heart wrenching to see Leonard in this vulnerable situation.

If I had been at the concert and had taken video, would I have uploaded it? Nah.

Anyway – this is what I think.

Love and best wishes to our wonderful Leonard Cohen. I hope he is feeling much better today - and fortunately he has a couple days free to rest before the Barcelona event.
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Laura
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby Laura » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:05 pm

I'm sorry, Tom, but the first thing I did when I heard about this was to look for an youtube video; because I know how distorted and exagerated news can get by newspapers, and I wanted to see with my own eyes. I really hoped the newspapers exagerated. Now that I saw it, I think watching it is a punishment in itself; but if I wanted to see it, I can't vote for others not to do the same thing.

I think there is nothing shameful or degrading in it; it is only very painful and sad. Making it shameful is something in the hearts of the people who watch; if we watch with decency and care in our hearts, that's all we'll see. And I'm happy to notice, from the comments there, that almost everyone shared those feelings. Not even the media didn't manage to make this look bad or "sensational", and that says something!

One little word of caution: I believe there is no "good" or "bad" publicity, there is only publicity; and this thread just adds to the publicity for that video (the same way it happened with the "DaVinci code" book; all the people going against it just made it a whole lot more famous).

Laura
AvidCohenFan
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby AvidCohenFan » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:36 pm

sturgess66 wrote:I read about the video here this morning and then I did watch it. I feared for the worst - but I have to say – I was greatly relieved. I think our wonderful Leonard Cohen handled his collapse as well as he could – as he does with everything - with great dignity. The video also captures the immediate reaction of all those on stage who love and care about him. And really - that is all there was. Well – not quite. There is Leonard’s performance at the beginning of this song which is quite remarkable, given how he must have been feeling. And the gorgeous guitar of Bob Metzger. All in all though – I think there is nothing untoward – other than a video – not even really close up – capturing someone falling ill/fainting on stage – at a concert.

Of course, for those of us who love Leonard Cohen, the news itself yesterday, that he was ill, was bad enough. And the video - initially - can be horribly upsetting and painful to watch – and it is upsetting to know that this video is out there, that captures such a vulnerable and sensitive moment when Leonard was ill - for the whole world to watch. But really – the video is not that bad. IMO Also – fortunately, the title of the video “Leonard Cohen faints in Valencia during concert” is not fraught with sensationalism. The event has been reported in the media – extensively – and if this is “all they’ve got” – then I am glad! Reports are that Leonard is feeling much better now. Hallelujah!

Just as a way of putting this in some perspective, in 1992, President George Herbert Walker Bush (67 years old at the time) was in Japan at a dinner with Japanese Prime Minister Miyazawa Kiichi. He, too, was suffering from flu symptoms or possibly food poisoning as a result of eating some bad sushi and cameras captured him actually vomiting. He was spared nothing by most of the major networks who delighted in showing video of the event– and of course – there is video on YouTube – and the comedy shows subsequently had a field day. Here is an account of the remarkably similar type of incident - in the New York Times. His unfortunate experience was much worse (from the point of view of publicity) and he obviously suffered embarrassment and he apologized immediately afterward – but developed a sense of humor as time passed when questioned about the incident.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/09/world ... gewanted=1

And President Bush obviously recovered from the stomach upset since he recently celebrated his 85th birthday by skydiving from a plane – :lol:
http://www.everest-skydive.com/blog/geo ... h-skydive/

I did post a comment there at YouTube for the sake that of anyone reading who may be genuinely concerned about Leonard – and also for the sake of just stating the facts - saying that Leonard was suffering from food poisoning but was fine now, and that the concert in Barcelona would proceed as scheduled. And I quoted a bit from this morning’s AP release saying that Leonard was fine. I doubt very much that YouTube would remove the video. In comparison to some of the horror that people post there – this is nothing. I tried to get FaceBook to remove untoward comments on a musician's site once and FaceBook had a place to report violations but they did nothing. Fortunately the musician had the ability to remove the comments and that is how it was achieved. I don't think an individual or artist can do that on YouTube - unless there are copyright violations - or possibly something terribly odious. Fortunately, this video does not even come close to that. It is just somewhat heart wrenching to see Leonard in this vulnerable situation.

If I had been at the concert and had taken video, would I have uploaded it? Nah.

Anyway – this is what I think.

Love and best wishes to our wonderful Leonard Cohen. I hope he is feeling much better today - and fortunately he has a couple days free to rest before the Barcelona event.
I agree.
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howthelightgetsin
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby howthelightgetsin » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:52 pm

You know just by going to the page you add another 'view' so they'll think 'why take it off when its popular', if you don't like it rise above it and ignore it I say.

Believe me I'm a fan of other artists who have sensationalist items written about them everyday - the media and You Tube don't listen if it brings in hits and views to their site, so the best thing is to resist looking at something if it offends you - I mean there is no reason to click on the video at all if it does offend as it does clearly say in the title what happens in it...
Aymi Derham photography - http://www.flickr.com/takenby1
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Nessus Jr
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby Nessus Jr » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:05 pm

asked, please remove the vid
(surfraptor)

Marco, who doesnt do prayers but all my love and best wishes to Lenny
2008 Amsterdam
2012 Ghent
sanneka
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby sanneka » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:35 pm

Tom Sakic
I agree, we who have received so much from Leonard Cohen, should do whatever we can to help defend him and protect him from being bullied, harrassed, slandered or in any way hurt or harmed. There are many things we can do if we are willing to give a little in return for what we have received for so many years.
I did not see the "U-tube" video and have no intentions of doing so, however I do believe if people can find "comfort" in seing the big man feeling powerless, that is their right.
To those of you who feel the truth is more important than kindness and consideration, I absolutely disagree.
Susanne
Denmark
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sturgess66
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby sturgess66 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:31 pm

sanneka wrote:
To those of you who feel the truth is more important than kindness and consideration, I absolutely disagree.
Susanne
Denmark
Yes - I know what you are saying. I am all for “freedom of speech” and "freedom of the press" – but I become offended by those who hold up that banner as a defense, at the expense of basic values and morals. Little things like respect, decency, and simple common courtesy. When things like that become the victims and are sacrificed. Some people use good judgment – others do not. And frequently some hide agendas behind the shield of “freedom of speech.”

But - as I was trying to say above, I think, fortunately, other than the pain one feels at seeing Leonard in distress, the video is not overly offensive – and about that I am very relieved! The video was not important or necessary in the reporting of the incident - but someone had the video and chose to upload it. Also – whether we like it or not, the video is now being cited and linked in news stories, i.e., the Montreal Gazette.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertai ... story.html

The important thing - Leonard is apparently feeling much better today - and that makes me happy. :D :D :D

Sharon Robinson sent this out on Twitter about 12 hours ago -
Leonard is fine. Bad case of food poisoning but he's fine. Tour continuing on as planned.
(Thank you Sharon!!)
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hydriot
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby hydriot » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:28 pm

My position is very simple. Leonard is a public figure, so it is fair to know in writing what his state of health is (i.e. it is fair to enquire and be told that he collapsed on stage half way through Bird on the Wire). But having the actual moment posted on You Tube is plain indecent. We deserve to know the facts, but it is beyond the pale to post images of the incident itself. Such images merely sensationalise a moment that must have been terrible for the whole band and his family, to no purpose.
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
jozef
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby jozef » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:40 pm

I watched it on youtube. Sorry guys, you are oversensitive if you want to red flag it (useless effort, anyway). The video shows strong voice performance, no sign of anything wrong. He faints and whole band runs to help him there. That's it. In other video we see people hearing speech and their applause to support Mr. Leonard. People who care. No bestiality or ignorance or something.
The guy was able to put anal sex or blowjob in his lyrics and songs happened to be masterpieces so we, his fans, should be able to take a video of fainting.
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phillip
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby phillip » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:02 am

I am 1000% behind you all flag the video!
I have been a Leonard Cohen fan for 28 years feel free to email me if you wish to keep in touch!
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Maulwurf
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby Maulwurf » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:26 am

flagged it.

but jozef got more than one point here:

i wouldn' t kid myself being too confident about gaining a suspension of the video.
i' m not aware of youtube' s policy on this - but i can hardly imagine there' ll be some kind of reaction on this at all.
and speaking of "oversensitive", jozef:
perhaps you' re right and that' s exactly what we are.

i myself didn' t find the video to be that much of upsetting or shocking.
but i was upset when i heard about mr. cohen fainting on the radio last night.
maybe that' s why i flagged it: i was upset 'bout the fainting, not about the video.

meanwhile, i don' t get the point you' re driving at when talking about anal sex and blowjobs, jozef.

but, and i love to quote cheaply here,
maybe the video shows us what happens "on the other side of intimacy"!
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Okudzhava
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Re: How to flag Valencia clip as inappropriate

Postby Okudzhava » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:58 am

Just as I've predicted couple of pages earlier --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fmOdLEX7gw

The guy just downloaded the first video and then uploaded it as his. Dork.
Belgrade, Serbia, 2. IX 2009.

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