Bristol Meet-Up Final Details

Information on other get-togethers before the next big Event
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Diane
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Postby Diane » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:24 pm

If there is an England v Germany match, I'll be supporting Germany.
(Rob, are you in the right thread :shock: :wink: ?)

You probably will be supporting Germany, as Wales will no doubt have been knocked out in the early rounds :roll: :wink: .

Diane (the enemy within)
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:11 am

Rob wrote:If there is an England v Germany match, I'll be supporting Germany.

Rob.

I'll be supporting the referee, asistant referees, ground staff, catering staff, stewards, local authority's cleansing crew, the Rights of the downtrodden masses, the underdog, the rule of Law, the right to spee freach, the Liberty of the individual, and freedom from tyranany, who won't let me stay up to watch telly even though I've been very good.


snif.......sniff...........snif..............bugger.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:16 am

I'll be right behind you, cheering you on, and giving you kleenex, Byron. Or, perhaps, we can split your list, but you can still avail yourself of my kleenex.

~ Lizzy :lol:

I'm off to enjoy what I hope is some good music. Ah! I also have gotten tickets to see Arlo Guthrie on January 31st! Guess I might mention that in the Other Music thread.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:24 am

lizzytysh wrote: I also have gotten tickets

Alas and alack Diane, I fear we still have a long way to go........and she was doing so awfully well, never mind, "small moves Ellie, small moves......" CQ, this W9GFO here. Come back?............


I'll name that film in one (word)
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:32 am

Yep ~ Me and Rob... just point us in the right direction, but not to where we'll step on each other's feet.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:43 am

I think you have misunderestimated my reference to the words you have gotten in your contribution....... :wink:

Think maths, think colours, think humour.......... :)
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:59 am

No surprize there :lol: ~ especially if it's a Brit thing... okay, so what do you call tickets!?! I know I would stand in a que instead of a line... isn't that good enough!?!

I said "have gotten" instead of "got" ~ what more d'ya want, bub!?! :wink:

Can't say somethin' I don't know! Geesh :shock: !

~ Lizzy :P
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:27 am

No, it's not a brit thing, it's an ear thing. We all get so used to hearing the language around us that, when words we aren't used to, enter the language, they stand out.
I can say that I have yet to hear or read someone over here using gotten. Yet, it is now common parlance (another lovely word) on our TV and Radio broadcasts from over there.
I hear a similar change in the language in the use of, off of, over there. I hear that someone got off of a bus in the mid-west, but someone over here got off a bus.
The language is changing and evolving all of the time. It's a living entity being spread by us all. Where it spreads, allows it to become almost parochial in its usage.
You'll have to humour me :) Whilst writing I'm listening to some of lc's performance on his 1993 tour.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:07 am

:lol: Geez... I thought, perhaps, I must have goutten some tickets, or toikets or billets, or something else, mayhaps. However, in checking the English/British slang [in that order] this is what I found...got have gotten. I'll find it later, when I have more time. Right now, I've got to leave or be late. Yes... off and off of, but I think I say "off" :? ... yes, I know I do... I got off the bus! Though, since I was never on top of it, both of us are wrong to begin with :shock: .

Later... :wink:

~ Lizzy
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Diane
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Postby Diane » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:50 pm

Byron, I think 'gotten' was transported across to America as an olde English word and took off over there. It died out over here, until they brought it back to us via the telly 8) .

Diane
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:58 pm

Diane, my Concise Oxford Dictionary, Ninth Edition, 1995, £15.99. (worth every penny, sou, half crown and sovereign) has,

gotten, US past part. of GET.

I know that 'maybe' left here with the Pilgrim Fathers and went across to the New World. It vanished from here for a few hundred years until the 1920's. It returned via Hollywood and the 'talkies.' 8)
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:04 pm

This below comes via Google......

Here's what David Crystal says about The gotten/got distinction in
The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (p.311):

"Gotten is probably the most distinctive of all the AmE/BrE grammatical
differences, but British people who try to use it often get it wrong.
It is not simply an alternative for have got. Gotten is used in such
contexts as
They've gotten a new boat. (= obtain)
They've gotten interested. (= become)
He's gotten off the chair. (= moved)
But it is not used in the sense of possession (= have). AmE does not
allow
*I've gotten the answer.
or *I've gotten plenty.
but uses I've got as in informal BrE. The availability of gotten
does however mean that AmE can make such distinctions as the following:
They've got to leave (they must leave) vs
They've gotten to leave (they've managed to leave)."

I'd add that Crystal's I've gotten the answer isn't starred if it means I have figured out the answer, rather than I have the answer.

The key is the overlap between the Possessive use of have and the Perfect use of have, plus the fact that one of the senses of get is come to have. If one has come to have a cold, for instance, then one has a cold, and the AmE usage of has got means that one is currently infested, due to the present relevance aspect of the Perfect. This is so common that kids regularly use got without have or even -'ve to mean have, and young kids even think it's the regular verb for possession, as witness such constructions as He gots new shoes.

Faced with the overwhelming interpretation of (ha)ve got as simply have, AmE has innovated a new past participle gotten to be used whenever other, non-possessive forms of get are intended.

If one is simply speaking of the acquisition of something, for instance, rather than the current possession, one says I've gotten ..... in AmE since I've got implies that one still has it, and therefore focusses on the current Possession rather than the Perfective acquisition. And all of the idiomatic uses of get, like the get-Passive of get married, the Inchoative become/come to be inherent in get tired, the Concessive of get to go that Crystal mentions, etc. use gotten as their participle. Whereas any construction, even an idiomatic one like have to (= must) where one can use have equally well, use got as the participle.

Weird, but that's English for you.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:08 pm

Even more here..........just to show total impartiallityness in this discussionment as the Jnr would say.......

The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints

§ 144. got / gotten


“There is no such word as gotten,” an irritated reader recently wrote to The Boston Globe Magazine, objecting to the use of the word by a usage commentator, who should have known better. The notion that gotten is illegitimate has been around for over 200 years and refuses to die. The word itself is much older than the criticism against it. As past participles of get, both got and gotten go back to the Middle Ages. In American English, have got is chiefly an intensive form of have in its senses of possession and obligation and can only be used in the present tense. Gotten sees regular use as a variant past participle of get. It can occur in a variety of past and perfect tenses: Had she gotten the car when you saw her? I would not have gotten sick if I had stayed home. In Britain, gotten has mostly fallen out of use. 1
There are subtle distinctions in meaning between the two forms. Got often implies current possession, where gotten usually suggests the process of obtaining. I haven’t got any money suggests that you are broke. I haven’t gotten any money suggests that you have not been paid for your efforts. This sense of process or progression applies to many other uses of gotten, and in some of these cases got just doesn’t sound as natural to the American ear: The bridge has gotten weaker since the storm. We have finally gotten used to the new software. Mice have gotten into the basement. 2
Remember that only got can be used to express obligation, as in I have got to go to Chicago. Note the difference in the sentence when gotten is used. I have gotten to go to Chicago implies that the person has had the opportunity or been given permission to go.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:12 pm

and more........

In England, the old word “gotten” dropped out of use except in such stock phrases as “ill-gotten” and “gotten up,” but in the U.S. it is frequently used as the past participle of “get.” sometimes the two are interchangeable, However, “got” implies current possession, as in “I’ve got just five dollars to buy my dinner with.” “Gotten,” in contrast, often implies the process of getting hold of something: “I’ve gotten five dollars for cleaning out Mrs. Quimby’s shed” emphasizing the earning of the money rather than its possession. Phrases that involve some sort of process usually involve “gotten”: “My grades have gotten better since I moved out of the fraternity.” When you have to leave, you’ve got to go. If you say you’ve “gotten to go” you’re implying someone gave you permission to go.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:18 am

What a handy word that "gotten" is 8) ... glad to know I used it properly :D . Meanwhile, I've never heard it used in these fashions:

They've gotten a new boat. (= obtain)
They've gotten interested. (= become)
He's gotten off the chair. (= moved)

Hey, gotta love olde English [and emoticons :wink: ], though :D . Good research, Byron :) .

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