Muffins or War

This is for your own works!!!

Muffins (lightly toasted with perhaps a little strawberry jelly) or a *just* War with not very many casulaties

I prefer a Just war
15
21%
I prefer just muffins
57
79%
 
Total votes: 72
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lizzytysh
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:29 pm

Not exactly the M.A.S.H. version.

I have a booklet with black&white printed copies of photos, written by a female, former U.S. soldier... amongst others, some photos of burned-out vehicles with the charred, skeletal remains still at the wheel and such... from Desert Storm [same region and motive, regardless] and some accounts of the problems of some female soldiers by their 'fellow' soldiers. The eye-witness accounts go far beyond the media accounts, which typically have their own agenda of sterilization or their simply not 'daring' to be too shocking.

Thinking back to when you were 20 and what you were doing; it's unimaginable experiencing what this young woman is, at any age, much less at 20 :cry: .


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
Alan Alda
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Alan Alda » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:51 pm

Red Poppy wrote:The just war is a great thing.
Thanks for that Alan.
It's an eye opener.
These are the type of wounds I have feared next to death...the ones that haunt nightmares and won't let you forget. She plans on staying in medicine, so maybe that will diminish the 'trauma' aspect. I suspect the writing of it was cathartic. I'm just a coward wringing my hands from afar while she and so many others live this shit every day.

L
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Alan, I know that some relatives have been concerned about young members of their extended families choosing to go into the Services. What we hear and see on our screens (TV and PC) is the result of 'filtering' down a long chain of media decision makers. If I recall properly, Siegfried Sassoon entered the Great War, as it was called then, with almost childish relish. The sights and sounds and smells and cynicism soon awoke his adult responses.

Yes, here is a quick link...

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/projects/j ... o/sassoon/
Last edited by Byron on Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:07 pm

I read an account of an American female soldier being raped by her male counterpart, and she had to struggle against the chain of command to even attempt to get the rape acknowledged. She failed.

The rape happened in Iraq on a main road in broad daylight. Not quite 'friendly fire' but a very close twin to it. :(
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:17 pm

'They'

The Bishop tells us: 'When the boys come back
'They will not be the same; for they'll have fought
'In a just cause: they lead the last attack
'On Anti-Christ; their comrades' blood has bought
'New right to breed an honourable race,
'They have challenged Death and dared him face to face.'

'We're none of us the same!' the boys reply.
'For George lost both his legs; and Bill's stone blind;
'Poor Jim's shot through the lungs and like to die;
'And Bert's gone syphilitic: you'll not find
'A chap who's served that hasn't found some change.
' And the Bishop said: 'The ways of God are strange!'

SS
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:22 pm

I agree that the writing down, getting it out of 'her' [her mind and 'self' ~ at least for the moment] and onto paper can only be cathartic in helping her to try to process the horror of it all. It's a good thing she has you to write to, Laurie... along with whomever else she may have. I'm guessing she is the same niece as from conversations long ago.

Check the suicide rate of current and former soldiers for the lack of impact.
I read an account of an American female soldier being raped by her male counterpart, and she had to struggle against the chain of command to even attempt to get the rape acknowledged. She failed.
Yes, that was from the same booklet that I brought to Hydra this past summer to share with you.


~ Lizzy
Last edited by lizzytysh on Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:25 pm

Sorry to harp on, but, if you show people the reality of a situation they learn.

Many years ago, Granada Television showed a live broadcast of an operation on a man having the cancerous parts of his lung cut out. He was a life-long smoker. I can still hear the 'slap' as the diseased lung was dropped into a bucket next to the operating table. I gave up smoking there and then. His operation on his cancer may have saved my life, and many others.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Alan Alda » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:26 pm

B~

Thanks for the link. My only knowledge of S. Sassoon is that his nephew (?) Richard Sasson was a love/lover of Sylvia Plath during her university years.
My first book about Modernism showed up yesterday and although Sassoon isn't in the index (strange) the other names mentioned are...ties into my 'history' lessons, for sure.

Your second post, about rape: I didn't mean to make this singularly about my niece (I raised her from 12...) but yes, she is suffering the problems of being a female in a male dominant environment and more than most because she is a very beautiful girl. She gets instantly judged on her looks by both males and females. One instance of a group of drunk soldiers (although alcohol is forbidden) coming to her sleeping quarters at night (this is in Baghdad) scared the hell out of her and when she reported it, they turned it around on her. She is in peril from the enemy without and within. She gets rules laid down for her that don't apply to other females because of petty jealousies. She's a strong girl that doesn't put up with shit, but the relentlessness of the stress worries me. Personally, her greatest fear is her 'fellow' soldiers. Sucks.
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
Even despots have access to 'Welcome' mats. Me
Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:33 pm

lizzytysh wrote:I agree that the writing down, getting it out of 'her' [her mind and 'self' ~ at least for the moment] and onto paper can only be cathartic in helping her to try to process the horror of it all. It's a good thing she has you to write to, Laurie... along with whomever else she may have. I'm guessing she is the same niece as from conversations long ago.

1) Check the suicide rate of current and former soldiers for the lack of impact.
I read an account of an American female soldier being raped by her male counterpart, and she had to struggle against the chain of command to even attempt to get the rape acknowledged. She failed.
2)Yes, that was from the same booklet that I brought to Hydra this past summer to share with you.


~ Lizzy
1)Read Sassoon's poem on Suicide in the Link above.


2)Yes, it was that booklet I was remembering.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:40 pm

Alan, perhaps she can come to terms with her beauty and the way it will impact on her chosen career.
The positive is already a negative in her social and workplace environment.

Has she read 'Tess Of The D'Urbervilles' ?

I will not discuss this any further here. It is a matter for pm or email.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Alan Alda » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:41 pm

B~

"They"

The "God" created and owned by mankind was certainly born of a need to manipulate and justify and is no kind of God at all.

L
I simply cannot see where there is to get to. Plath
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Desperation is easily confused with enthusiasm. Me
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:42 pm

1)Read Sassoon's poem on Suicide in the Link above
Just did. I get so used to WebBlocker and Barracuda that I tend to stop trying until I get home. I'm glad to see that he survived; which I feel his writing of his poetry was probably one of his stronger coping mechanisms in that.


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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:48 pm

His friend Wilfred Owen was killed in the last week of that war.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by Byron » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:50 pm

We have had a themed historical review lately on Radio 4 about the losses of a whole generation. Instead of looking at the loss of the generation of young men, the programmes looked at the loss of those men with regard to a whole generation of young women who would never marry and have children. :(
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Re: Muffins or War

Post by lizzytysh » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:22 pm

His friend Wilfred Owen was killed in the last week of that war.
There's somehow another degree of tragedy added on with the lives that are lost in the final days of conflict. As it begins to look like some troop withdrawals will actual be happening in Iraq, I wonder how many more will die in this way, in their own final days of slated time there, or in the final days of the 'official' conflict [keeping in mind that some say some soldiers will remain there for another 10-15 years].


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
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