Muffins or War

This is for your own works!!!

Muffins (lightly toasted with perhaps a little strawberry jelly) or a *just* War with not very many casulaties

I prefer a Just war
15
21%
I prefer just muffins
57
79%
 
Total votes: 72
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Rob
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Early results show swing towards Muffins

Post by Rob » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:26 am

Yesterday there was local government elections in Wales and England, the first ballot since the invasion and occupation of Iraq. It was anticipated that the vote would be, in part, a referendum on Blair's war policy.
The results (so far) puts Blairs "new labour" in third place.

Culture secretary Tesa Jowell acknowledged there had been a "strong protest vote" against her party and said "I think we have to take account of what people are telling us".

The people of Wales and England have swung in favour of Muffins.
Rob
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Helven
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Post by Helven » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:51 am

Hello,

I'm here again and would like to reply to a couple of messages addressed to me.
Vesuvius wrote:Ciao Helven!

"I am the Way, the Truth, the Life and no man comes to the Father but by me" is the full quote that Peter has posted. Banal??? This saying of Jesus is anything but banal !!!! It is the reason Christianity is so hated. Because He does say "No other Way, No other Truth, No other Life" can bring you to the Father.

Vesuvius
Ciao Vesuvius,

I'm not sure you got me quite right. In fact, I didn't characterize the saying of Jesus at all. The only thing I told about was interpretation. To say that some phrase means this or that, to say it has only one meaning, or it may mean anything else is to interprete it somehow, as it seems to me. But, yes, I admit, it isn't correct to characterize this - and any other - understanding as "banal". "Generally accepted" would be more proper words.

********
witty_owl wrote:Helven, No need to apologise for the verbiosity. Yes the theme is important and as I see it, is at the crux of humanity's dilemma.
Nice to see an intelligent well considered reponse to a serious issue as opposed to a conflict of opinions or personal attacks. I may return to this post when time allows for a more detailed response.

Regards, W.O.
Hi Witty Owl,

Thank you very much. I'd certainly like to talk to you upon this theme. It'd be interesting to learn more of your opinion, really. After all, this issue does concern social reality which surrounds me now - as well as the recent history of my country - so it can't but excite me. Our dialogue (or polylogue) was interrupted by my "disappearing" but it'd be great to continue - if you don't mind, of course.

Yours,
TH.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:07 pm

I wonder if Messrs Kean and Hamilton prefer Muffins?
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:57 pm

For the record: now 1,000 and still counting. And that's only since the official end of the war. And these are only the figures for one country's young men and women. A lot of lies have cost a lot of lives. Even 'the good ol' boys' must be waking up by now, surely?
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Midnight
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Post by Midnight » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:18 pm

You know absolutely nothing about this country. It's the "good ol' boys" who are giving their lives. Not the sons and daughters of the effete, intellectual chattering classes. I have close friends in Iraq, who believe in what they are doing. They know that the USA is basically all alone in this. They know that many Iraqi's are demanding the impossible. They know that Europe is so intent on hating Bush that they totaly ignore the HUGE scandal involving Kofi Annan and the UN.

And you sit in the safety of your home pontificating about it all. Then you think that you've DONE something. You've done NOTHING. Go on. Get serious. Protest. Get arrested. Put your money where your mouth is. But you're not really going to put yourself out. You'll just continue to drink your luke-warm lager and puff out your chest about how morally superior you are. You won't ever ever have to make a hard decision about anything. You can leave that to us. And you will.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:24 pm

Please enlighten us ignorant europeans about the Kofi Annan scandal. Perhaps we are being denied the sort of information about him that mirrors the sort of information that you are being denied about your lot?
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Pete
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Post by Pete » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:53 pm

1974: Brighton Dome 1976: Birmingham Town Hall 1993: London RAH 2008: Manchester Opera House, London O2, Matlock Bandstand, Birmingham NEC 2009: Liverpool Echo Arena 2013 Birmingham
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:13 pm

Bye the way. The 'good ol' boys' I'm talking about are the ones who have been mentioned on British Television by TV executives from the USA.

You're own media are giving us your own story from over there. America's Senior Media are telling the British that there is a rumbling and an 'unease' in the 'diehard Republican' supporters who feel that they 'have been hoodwinked' by the people they trusted.

Don't question me, question your own leaders. Step back and take a long hard look at the situation.

Whatever happened to that small phial of white dust that Colin Powell presented to the UN?

Why has your top CIA chief taken early retirement?

Why did your top Nuclear investigator and supporter of the action to go to war, recant and say they got it all wrong?

These are NOT my words and actions.

Just stop for a moment and ask yourself "Why are these fellow Americans backpedalling like mad to distance themselves from the situation?"

It doesn't require the mind of an Einstien to work it out.

A few powerful men and women have taken millions of honest, loyal and patriotic people down a road to hell. (on the strength of a few chads of paper in Florida)

Even Tony Blair is distancing himself from G*B. Are they telling you that over there? I bet they aren't!

Oh, and please try to remember that we had years of attacks on our mainland from the IRA. We know as much about being on the receiving end as you do. Margaret Thatcher was nearly killed by those bastards, so don't patronise me and my people. You don't have a monopoly on being victims!
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Insanitor
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Post by Insanitor » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:24 am

Intriguing...what Kofi scandal? Or do you mean he isn't an American?

I think many of us know someone in Iraq and I also think the majority of soldiers really believed in their role and mission. However, I reckon they have been gipped like the rest of us by this bullshit war. "we are eating our young"

Great link Pete, some great poetry there. I think we will see this coming out as a fridge magnet word game
Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.

Buddha
Candice
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Post by Candice » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:11 am

You people really are clueless. Byron admits to not knowing about the Oil for Food scandal at the U.N. And Insanitor doesn't even know who Kofi Annan is. And yet both of them think they are experts on Iraq. Yeah, just keep drinking your beer boys.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:32 am

Candice, could you at the very least be polite enough to answer an enquiry about 'what Kofi Annan scandal.'

The man speaks to hundreds of people every day.
Meets dozens of people every day.
Makes several speeches every day.

And you chuck in a throw away line about Oil for Food. If you would answer the question in a civilised and serious manner we would appreciate your position better.

Should your explanation of the 'scandal' prove to be 'enlightening' and informative, I for one will be the first to thank you.

Who knows, perhaps we can all benefit from further education on this topic and I am NOT being sarcastic or ironic in this matter.

Over 1,000 young people have been sent to their deaths in the last 15 months and I do not find a side swipe about some international beaurocrat to be helpful in discussing this appalling and disgusting waste of young lives.

If you want to bring the discussion down to the 'beer' level then that is your choice. But I doubt that the families of those young people would appreciate your literary stance.

If I take on board your assertion that KA is in the midst of an international 'scandal,' we are all still left with the original issue of who 'hoodwinked' millions of loyal, honest and patriotic citizens of our countries.

Evidence is now emerging over here that our top politicians told Parliament that they had 'clear evidence' of a 45 minute warning of a chemical attack as well as other WMD capabilities. The evidence which is now emerging is coming from our own senior security services and the top people there say that "no such threat ever existed and that a few people close to the very top of the political echelon lied."

These 'whistle blowers' are men and women who have spent a lifetime of service at the very top of our own security services.

We are being told that WE have been lied to and the genuine evidence of those lies is appearing as I write.

Are you aware that there is a lot of discussion over here about Tony Blair's future? His cabinet colleagues are publicly declaring their undying support for him. Why? Because they know that if he goes, they will have to go as well. The whole bunch of them are scared of what is coming, in an official report, from an official enquiry, which is to be published this week.

If you can't read the writing on the wall over there, we can certainly read it over here.

Bye the way Candice, perhaps you can tell us which country has consistently failed to pay its membership fees and dues to the United Nations? The phrase 'people in glass houses....etc.,' comes to mind.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Midnight
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Post by Midnight » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:58 pm

Byron, get that dumb teddy bear Albert to show you how to use a search engine.

Or, here I'll make it easy for you.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Inve ... 420-1.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... =110005040


And get your facts straight, European shirkers, the U.S. taxpayer supplies a quarter of the U.N. budget.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:51 pm

Midnight, I am not going to join in your churlish game of tangental meandering.

Albert sends you a large red rasberry.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Midnight
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Post by Midnight » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:03 pm

Ah, just as I suspected, Albert is the articulate one.
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:30 pm

Dear Midnight, having loads of time on my hands and having nothing better to do, I have followed your tangendental wanderings to the links you provided.
Very interesting they are too. I shall follow the story.
One small point I must make is this. There are 2 names in the UK section of the list of beneficiaries and George Galloway was thrown out of Tony Blair's New Labour Party recently for being far too close to Saddam. Galloway is a renegade and known as Gorgeous George because of the way he dresses and preens himself in public. I am not surprised to see his name on that list. As to the other name on the UK list, I did a Google search and found that it is not a person but an organisation of 'not very nice' middle eastern zealots. (please allow for typical British understatement)
The one name which does appear often throughout both links is that of a Cypriot.
There are names of people from most countries on the list of beneficiaries, including the US.
Your point about US tax payers and European shirkers is taken on board. However, the Europeans promised their money and paid it. The UN is still waiting for the US money. Appropriating funds to pay, does not mean actually paying those funds. There is a subtle difference, don't yer know.

Now then Midnight, back to the original point.
Can't you see the writing on the wall?
How senseless has the loss of life been?
The crack where the light gets in is now a gaping great chasm.

And Albert says thank you.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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