Muffins or War

This is for your own works!!!

Muffins (lightly toasted with perhaps a little strawberry jelly) or a *just* War with not very many casulaties

I prefer a Just war
15
21%
I prefer just muffins
57
79%
 
Total votes: 72
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Sat May 29, 2004 2:36 pm

Ooops, I should have said 'broadcastified' and not 'receivicated.'
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:28 am

One US Military Hospital in Southern Germany, has been receiving 40 wounded US servicemen and women every day from planes, which have airlifted all of them out of Iraq, and the total number of these casualties, including many amputees, for the past 12 months has been 12,500 (twelve thousand five hundred ).

They are the figures for just one military hospital.

These facts came direct from the hospital, where the casualties and staff were allowed to be interviewed. Senior US military personnel gave their permission for the casualties and staff to be filmed and interviewed.

The report is in the public domain and was broadcast on British television last week.

A previous series of interviews, conducted a few months ago, was brought to a sudden halt when senior military hospital staff, told the film crew to stop and to leave the hospital they were at.

There has obviously been a shift in attitude by those in positions of responsibility in the US military hospital chain of command. We can only wonder why?
Last edited by Byron on Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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witty_owl
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Postby witty_owl » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:47 am

Poor Puss in tux, loves to play semantics at the expense of comprehension.

Regards, Owl.
Last edited by witty_owl on Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby witty_owl » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:09 pm

A few verses for consideration written by an American songwriter in the 1970's. This song was written by a man who has a lot of affection for his country but he is not averse to making criticisms where warranted and this one is written with a certain dry sense of humour. Worth a look at 30 years on.

Political Science Randy Newman.

No one likes us, I don't know why.
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try.
And all around us, even our old friends put us down,
Let's drop the big one, see what happens...

We give them money, but are they grateful?
No they're spiteful and they're hateful,
They don't respect us so let's surprise them,
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Asia's crowded, Europe's too old,
Africa is far too hot and Canada's too cold,
And South America stole our name,
Let's drop the big one, there'll be no one left to blame us,

We'll save Australia. Don't want to hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all American amusement park there, they got surfing too.

Boom! goes London, boom Pa-reee,
More room for you and more room for me.
And every city the whole world 'round,
Will just be another American town.
Oh how peaceful it will be, We'll set everybody free,
There'll be a Japanese kimono for you, there'll be Italian shoes for me.

They all hate us any how, so let's drop the big one now,
Let's drop the big one now.

Re guards, Owl.
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:17 pm

I have edited the above posting, about the 12,500 casualties, to make it absolutely clear, that senior US military personnel gave their permission for the service men and women to be filmed and interviewed in the military hospital in southern Germany.

That permission, alone, speaks volumes about the change in attitude within the corridors of military power.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Postby Vesuvius » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:27 pm

Poor naked Owl. Loves to evade questions by telling us we are all wrong and he is right. Owl believes something. Owl believes that religion is for dummies. Remember that bad poem he wrote - Ship of Fools. Now he tells us belief is a snake that will bite us. Only we are too stupid to know this. We are such blunderers. Only the carrion-lovin' Owl is wise.

Atheists like Owl believe in their own superiority. That is their religion. Owl believes there is no God. So, yes that is a belief. So when Owl says "belief is a hazzard" he must include himself in his indictment.

Vesuvius
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Postby witty_owl » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:54 pm

vesuvius, why do I bother? :roll: You would make a fine politician as you are quite skilled at twisting words to suit your own meanings/amusement.
regards, Owl.
Last edited by witty_owl on Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vesuvius » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:16 am

Owl why do I bother? :lol:

You are so angry. You may not like me but many many members here do like me.

I think you do not like that I pointed out the fallacies in your argumentments on this thread. You are not logical.

You have been angry before when anyone even mentions God. Remember Suzanne? You threatened to leave the Forum if we didn't stop talking about "religion and spirituality". Would you say that to Leonard? Oh No, if you met Leonard you would not tell him to shut-up when he starts talking about " GOD and spirituality". He wrote an entire book on HIM. The BOOK OF MERCY.

And it is you who are always jumping in to fight anyone who is having a conversation and happens to mention God. All because you do not believe (Oh, there is that word again!)

And you HAVE told us what you believe. You believe in NATURE, some sort of FORCE. You do not believe there is a God. Therefore you ARE an atheist. Because that's what atheist means. NO GOD.

You say that we are following others at our own peril. WHo are you Following? Someone came up with the idea of NATURE rather than GOD. I will bet that you have books on that subject and read them believing that what is written is true. In other words, YOUR BIBLE.

So stop with the mumbo-jumbo about how you have "observations" and "thoughts". Every human being believes in something or someone. The real test is WHAT IS TRUTH. Someone long ago asked that question but did not wait for an answer.

Vesuvius

P.S. To everyone: I am editing this post. I am not deleting or changing any words. I am adding this post script. I want everyone to notice that Witty Owl has edited his above post. He has deleted 90 percent of it. Why? I think because he does not want others to know how mad he was at me. So he deletes the angry words to me. Owl wants to be seen as wise and reasonable. And wants me to look like a cracked-pot. So he deletes his angry unreasonable words. This is not a fair thing. At all.

P.P.S. And Owl edits after writing that he will not speak to me again. No, he will not speak to me but he will edit posts to me. Hypocrite!
Last edited by Vesuvius on Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby witty_owl » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:53 am

ves, have it your way. You are not listening. you are not trying to engage intelligent discussion. You are still making presumptions, accusations and hanging labels. Clearly you are not interested in "what is truth". I have given you more time and attention than you deserve.

Do not write to me again; I shall not reply. Owl.
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Postby Makera » Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:04 am

Hi Ves :D

Geez, Ves, you really must watch those "jack boots", and making people think you want to "burn [them] at the stake" when you have those "knee-jerk eruptions" :lol:

I've noted the promise you got, though ;)

If Vesuvius decided to really 'erupt', I think we'd all notice! :P

~ Makera
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Byron
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Postby Byron » Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:59 am

When ves uses the word 'you' 18 times in an answer (of weird sorts) to WO, I know that ves is engaging in sophistry.
Borrrrriiiiiiiinnnnngggggggg............ZZzzzz...zzzz...zzzzzzz......zzzz
Some contributers add to this forum, others behave like my three year old neice. Perhaps they have such empty, pointless, useless, boring, mundane, unattractive lives, that they can only get their kicks out of childishly spoiling other peoples' postings. This behaviour happened last year with the same ars*h***s as now, acting in a 'spoiling' way and I left the forum for some months because I could not get an adult response to discuss matters which effect us all. If I leave again it is not a victory for the 'spoilers,' but simply a matter of me leaving their kindergarten behaviour behind whilst I get on with living in the adult world.
Or, in other words, some of you are as tireing as 3 year olds. You make a lot of noise and crave attention. So all I will say is goodbye....
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Postby Vesuvius » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:08 pm

Ciao Byron,

I think you are a very unhappy person. I do not attack. I defend. I also write poems now.



Vesuvius
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Postby Vesuvius » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:20 pm

The Cat and the Owl

See that Owl,
He's sleeping in the trees,
It's daylight now,
And his great big head
Is resting on his little tiny knees.

See that Cat!
He's playing in the leaves,
His fur is black and shiny,
He's as pretty as a picture,
As pretty as you please.

Poor little Owl,
Snoring on your bough,
Wake up! Wake up and fly free,
Oh, get up from your nap,
For that pretty little cat,
knows how to climb trees.

Too late now!
Oh, poor little owl,
The cat comes down from the trees,
One soft meow, No more owl,
No more logical fallicies.

See that Cat!
He's playing in the heather,
Red are his paws,
And so are his claws,
And his mouth is trailing feathers.

Vesuvius
(Copywright 2004)
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Helven
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Postby Helven » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:15 pm

Hi Everyone,

Excuse me, please, I also “jump” in the discussion, perhaps, without realizing “the crux of matter” – and, moreover, when the curtain is dropping… But the theme stung me to the quick.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me I understand what Witty Owl meant, and I agree with him. (Or, to be correct, I agree with both Witty Owl and Vesuvius – in different respects). Yes, belief can be dangerous. Everyone knows of sad facts from the history of Christianity, and to deny their existence is to sin against the truth. I don’t think it was belief itself that brought into being the things like the fires of inquisition, crusades etc. (it was rather a matter of internal and foreign policy). But I do think belief was one of the main factors which allowed occurring of those phenomena. That demonstrates how belief of one group can be dangerous for the other groups of people who don’t hold the same views.

On the other hand, from the first A.D.-centuries, various pseudo-prophets have been appearing from time to time foretelling the near end of the world (this happened during the periods of social perturbations, as a rule, and at the turn of centuries). And what did their adherents’ lives look like? Sometimes they ended with mass self-immolation.
There’s no need to look for the examples far in the past. I can say that now, after communism has crashed down in Russia, many sects of different trends from all over the world began to spread their activity here, and many, many lives – thousands of lives – were broken by some of them. There were some local “christs”, as well, whose followers ended with mass suicide.
And again, I don’t maintain it was belief itself that was responsible for those awful pages of history and our days (there’re some psychological and social reasons which make people follow wrong leaders) but, nevertheless, people died quite often just because they believed. And it demonstrates how belief can be dangerous for the believers.

[I wouldn’t like to be misunderstood. I don’t criticize Christianity. Of course, many religions, including Islam and Buddhism, for example, had (or even still have) their dark days. Some of them are (were) just bloody cults. I simply don’t try to draw the full picture – only mention some well-known things.]

At the same time, “belief” is, indeed, a wide concept and goes far beyond the sphere of religion. Now I’ll simply mention some notorious notions connected with the history of USSR. Cult of personality. Public enemies. Repressions. Cold War. Persecution of dissenters. Could those things exist without people’s indulgence? No. Were the majority of population blood-thirsty monsters? No. And what made many people – and often pretty good people – “support” those things on one way or another? It frequently was their belief.
I suppose, the same is right regarding Germany in the days of Hitler, too.

And all the aforementioned “cases” of belief show its main danger which consists in the banal fact that it’s often very, very easy to manipulate people with its help.

The only thing I’d like to exaggerate now. It seems to me it isn’t so that belief itself is dangerous. Neither is it a kind of defect or weakness. Our life really is penetrated with it and maybe even based on it. I’d rather say – and did say many times – it can be dangerous. And they’re the other factors – such as ignorance, intolerance, fear, carelessness, unconcern, etc. – which make it dangerous. It seems so.

Sorry for this verbosity, but I considered the theme to be rather important.

Yours,
TH.
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peter danielsen
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Postby peter danielsen » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:49 pm

The fact that jesus say "I am the truth" could be understood in such a way that no 'believer' can claim to know the truth. He/she is under the reality of sin. He does not know if he holds the good act or is under influence of destructive power(demons in the old langue). The point in the new testament is that no man can claim to be rightous even if he tries to all he can. To believe that rightousness is a possible path like Islam, several christian communities, and lots of political ideologies(socialism for example) does is to believe that man can be god-like. If one claim to hold the ultimate goodness in oneself, others who dont agree must be evil or bad. Then hen can be excluded from society or killed. This we saw through history, and this we see today, and will always see. Faith is a destructive force if it is faith in once abillity to recieve the ultimate rightousness, faith under the message of sin is the force of mercy. If one is grasped by the idea that no rightous path can be walked, and that suffering is the consequence, then the other person, the suffering, can be encounteres with mercy.


Peter

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