hell bent on war

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elazar
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hell bent on war

Post by elazar » Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:53 am

as saddam launches his last missile
out of unneccesary whim
america reduced to dust and thistle
threshing floor of reaper grim

O' there had been a a growing complaint
'twith crippled the nations defence
the worldwide cry "RESTAINT!RESTRAINT!"
which polluted their common sense

the liberals were true to their name
and liberated the darkest forces
and on democracy pinned the blame
now all that's left is corpses
and the hawk they afforded to tame

yes deep in a celler he rots
the leader of the former free world
his conscience binded in knots
he should have stopped it before it unfurled

salute
elazar
breathe deep and live
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:16 am

These are the kinds of thoughts that begin my mornings, too, Elazar....as I wake to reports of plans of 500[?] tons[?] of bombs to be dropped on Baghdad......a magnificent city, filled with history and untold number of innocents. Oh, don't worry, now you won't need to worry about that evil Saddam anymore.......you're dead. A "show of force" it's being called, and likened to Blitzkrieg and Hiroshima. How heartlifting to concern myself with Mrs. Stokes' gooseberries and the annual goings-on of the entire lot....if only for the pleasurable few minutes it takes me to read.
What lies ahead for all of us?
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Paula
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Post by Paula » Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:12 pm

Elazar the way I read your poem I thought you were saying if the liberals get their way we will avoid war and in its place we will have a darker world. Am I reading it correctly?

I am not a warmonger but you do have to stand up and fight for freedom and democracy. I think we are heading straight for war. It is not something I relish but I do relish my freedom.
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Post by Linda » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:43 pm

That is a somber poem, but packed with realism. You didn't write that over night, it has a lot of thought. I read it as Paula did, and also read that either way the out come is bleak at best. I agree with Paula and am not in favor of war either, but feel the out come with backing down to Saddam is a much worse faith.
Linda
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Byron
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Post by Byron » Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:21 am

elazar, be pleased to know that you are not alone in your anguish. We are with you in your thoughts, as you are in ours. But take comfort in the long view for, "This too shall pass".
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Post by elazar » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:13 am

dear lizzytysh,
with the capabilitys of our "smart bombs" which are a technical wonder,i do think this wont be a blitzkrieg nor hiroshimo/nahgasaki.human error and colateral damage are undescribably sad and horrible.i hate war.hate hate hate.a life is very valueble to me.i dont care whose.i think this is a war for democracy and freedom,as for our very lives.who knows how many casualtys would fall in a all out quest to conquer the free world?many have fallen allready,which is far far too much.are those people murdered on 9/11 not you or me?and i believe this is what we are dealing with,when we speak of danger.it was cried live free or die,yes,but not all would agree.some think that you must give the tyrant his freedom to be tyranical.and its noble to sacrifice yourself to provide him with this freedom.even if all the iraqis were in love with saddam,we need to protect ourselves.i believe they deserve a quality life,by their own standards,and hate ameica if they should so be inclined.this is not a nation building,whimsical exploration.this is a preemtive measure,so you and me can live.period..i like the idea of compromise and diplomatic conclusions,very much,and wish this would be the case here.i am not a politico,very far from, this is not a political nuance this is a matter of life and death!our illusion of security is part of our lifestyle and ignorance is bliss.the bliss of the dead is also of the same brand.i have alot of faith that as byron said"this too shall pass".in a positive outcome for all involved.
paula and linda,i did generalize when i said liberals,but my point was like you said.i dont think its a dramatisation,for one life lost what i wrote would be applicable.and there is a responsibilty by our elected officials to by all means nessecary avoid this.


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Post by lizzytysh » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:00 am

Oh my.......I must recant on my commentary, as I did not read your poem as everyone else [accurately] did. I have no problem "coming up against" all of you with whom I disagree on this thread. So far, it's 4:1. It wouldn't matter if it ended up 321:1. However, I just don't have the time to devote to full-fledged responses, of which this is worthy. I feel this is an "invented" war. I feel it is being orchestrated, with the instruments I hear being trumpets/violins/bass drums/violins/timpani/violins/etc. I feel this war is about Bush's personal oil interests, power-mongering, and the New World Order. I do not, do not, do not feel this has much, if anything , to do with preserving democracy, though the mind- and opinion-shapers would like us to believe it so. I also value freedom. I wish this war related to it.

Rapid deployments from here are in the process even as we speak. I have heard through people in close connection with some of those in the military fold that something large scale is supposed to occur in March. I heard that approximately a month ago. The yellow alert and the North Korea capabilities that are being touted are in my mind the psychologicals geared to get Americans behind the idea of going to war. I will continue to read about gooseberries and pray that this too shall pass. Pre-emptive strikes on Baghdad seem so justifiable to so many, yet any strike on this homeland seem so appalling. How can this be? I have an entirely different view of September 11 than [I'm guessing] all of you....and I don't think it [never mind, I said I don't have time, and I truly don't have the energy, to keep revisiting this]. I'm against this conflict and I would love to believe it is in the interest of freedom. However, I simply cannot.

If you write responses and rebuttals to me here, please don't be surprized if I don't answer. I know I cannot change your mind, as much as I know that it's impossible for you to change mine. I've written my views on the Sony Discussion Board over a long period of time. I'm truly not up to going through it all over again here. However, for now, if we can just agree to disagree, I think that may work. Believe me, it's not that I lack the courage or wherewithal to argue my point of view. My time is so limited these days that I can barely stay in contact with friends and loved ones. I prefer not to go to ideological war with you here. War will come in its darkness and explosive reality too soon elsewhere, as it is.

~ Elizabeth
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Post by elazar » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:23 am

dear lizzytysh,
whether you have time to read this or not,let it be said that i respect your passion and opinion.i never disagreed to disagree in the first place,so please try to see that.i hate not nor jade.i hope these feelings of 4:1 will dissapate.

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Post by Linda » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:59 am

Lizzytysh I totally agree that we disagree. I have tried to see your side and I cannot. I am placing my faith in our leaders, and it is not just President Bush, even our former liberal Pres. has said Saddam has to be dealt with now rather than later. To say it has nothing to do with oil, would be foolish, but to say it is all about oil is equally foolish. I don't pretend to understand what it is all about, but I am fearful for my children and grandchildren, and if I am going to put my faith and trust in someone it is definetely not Saddam. He is a twisted dictator. [/i]
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Post by lizzytysh » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:26 am

Hi Elazar ~ I don't mean that the 4:1 is against me personally, but rather that the thinking of the 4 is against the thinking of this 1. When I say agree to disagree, I mean only that I'm not up for a political/ethical/moral/economic/power/ad nauseum argument here. Even the "greatest" of the "experts" don't agree....however, more Americans are deciding that war is not the answer. Where the actual numbers are at, at this point, who knows....depends on the pollsters. Only thing that seems clear is that the anti-war sentiment is gaining ground.

I am not claiming to know Leonard's position[s] in these territories, but rather utilizing his words to serve my purpose in making the point I want to make......he said, "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." He didn't say, "it's killing/it's combat/it's war," and I see the mega-bombing-of-Baghdad prospect as nothing other than that, murder, and the murder of thousands, hopeless, helpless, without a chance. How the decision-makers can live with themselves, sleep at night, whatever, is so far beyond me I don't know how to express it.

My thinking is so far afield from yours and the others that I feel it's pointless to try to convince one another at this point. I'm watching the children of people I know depart, while no children of policy- and decision-makers, nor the children of their friends or relatives, do the same.

In today's hometown paper, within an article having to do with the deployments occurring here, I saw mention of an anti-war rally. I looked through the rest of the article, yet the time, location, or anything else related to it had been conveniently left out.

I feel it's significant that this heinous Saddam [I do not feel he's a good guy] rose from out of the ranks which we financed and supported to begin with....and amazingly was able to somehow "elude" our "smart-bomb" efforts to kill him countless times approximately 10 years ago. We have slowly murdered his subjects through our sanctional denying of medical care and supplies and clean water and who knows what else through the years....so perhaps in some ways his killing of his own people has been more merciful. That comment is, I admit, a stretch, going by some of the means and reasons I've heard about, yet even so, there may be a grain of truth there.

As you already know, Linda [and unlike you], I don't trust those occupying the positions of leadership. I am fearful for our children and grandchildren, also, Linda. I am fearful for children and grandchildren everywhere.

~ Elizabeth
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Post by Linda » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:38 am

Destroy another fetus now we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future, baby it is murder. Talk about the innocent dying.
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Post by Paula » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:59 pm

In my youth I was idealistic, went on CND and ban the bomb marches.

As I have got older I am more realistic and realise with freedom and war sometimes you can't have one without the other.

You cannot let tyrants take over the world.
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Post by Byron » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:36 pm

Elizabeth, join Amnesty International at this website and find out the ways you can make a difference.
http://www.amnesty.org/stoptorture
Thousands of us sent e-mails to a south american country which was torturing prisoners of consience and within two days the government there was pleading with A.I. to stop the flood of e-mails, because they were completely swamping that government's computer systems. That is just one genuine example. You can make a difference. Those prisoners were released!
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Post by lizzytysh » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:26 pm

Thank you for the link, Bryon. I will do that. Thanks.

~ Elizabeth
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:46 pm

"An eye for an eye will only end in making the whole world blind."

- Mohandas Gandhi
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