never-ending gallery

This is for your own works!!!
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending scrutiny

Post by LisaLCFan »

You know, Geoffrey, given your propensity for psychology and behaviourism, you must realise that your sketchbooks/notebooks, as you said to me recently, are "begging for analysis".

When it comes to such analysis, there are at least two things that may be analysed: the notebooks themselves, and your posting of them. As for the latter, a question I have is this: do these pages you've posted reveal the genuine inner workings of your mind, or, are they merely props that you create to post online in order to give people a certain impression of you that you want them to have? Thus, are we actually privy to your private thoughts, or are you just trying to manipulate us into thinking that we are?

Without first knowing the answers to the questions surrounding the posting of your notebook/sketchbook pages, one cannot really analyse their content, because one cannot ascertain whether the pages reflect the "real" Geoffrey, or just the one he wants us to see. That's why -- and when -- behaviourism fails: by focussing on what is readily observable, a behaviourist may overlook the things that they cannot observe, and this failure may render their observations false. The fact is, some people are quite adept at revealing, in their outward actions and behaviours, only that which they want people to see, and concealing, rather well, that which they'd rather keep to themselves. Therefore, it is not always possible to learn everything about other people simply by observation -- one often needs to know more than that in order to get a complete and accurate picture of who -- and how -- they are. Generalisations and oversimplifications, whether in psychological analysis or anything else, will always yield some results that are patently wrong.

Therefore, as tempting as it may be to analyse your sketchbook pages -- the scribbles of a restless mind, or calculated illusions, or...? -- I cannot do so with any veracity.
its4inthemorning
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by its4inthemorning »

I will go out on a limb and theorize that any form of exhibition--creation of art or writing or even posting on this forum--is at least in part meant to give the viewer or reader a desired impression of the work's creator.

Maybe I've written a poem with such perfect words and flow that I believe it will impart joy to others, so I post it here. Despite my very real intention to share this joy, I don't think I could ever convince myself that a desire to have others see me as one with the ability to create such a poem was not a motivating factor. In our own little ways we all seek recognition, do we not?

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

dear lisa.

these journals/notebooks are a therapeutic pastime, a habit of many years. some of them from the 1970s - '80s, unless they have been taken, are here somewhere. inferior writings, naive sketches, before internet. no one to show them to, all quite dull, secretive and purposeless. the internet lets me show some pages, allows more point in doing it, though undisciplined stuff is kept back.

everything a person does or says can be interpreted either positively or negatively, depending upon the goal an interpreter (manipulator?) is aiming for. yes, i wrote that your sentence was "begging for analysis". your reply ("i'd rather not be analysed") begged even harder, but caution is always appropriate when attempting to put a reluctant patient on the 'couch'.

>it is not always possible to learn everything about other people simply by observation -- one often needs to know more than that in order to get a complete and accurate picture of who -- and how -- they are.

leonard cohen said he wrote poems to get girls, learned the guitar because he wanted to impress. perhaps artists and entertainers begin their careers through a need for attention, and that is no crime. the second born child is commonly the most neglected, something he and i have in common. i always thought he gave the perfect reponse when a reviewer wrote denouncing his talent. he politely wrote back "thank you for showing an interest in my work".

i am aware that this is a very unsatisfactory answer to your message, lisa. be assured you have encouraged me to think more about a person's complicated motives for revealing, or refusing to reveal themselves. how fascinating it might be to examine ourselves on a microscope sliding glass, to view with a scrutinous eye the little chauffeur who drives our behaviour. i read recently ('psychology today' june 2019, page 45) that therapy patients are almost four times more likely to hide important information during a consultation than they are to lie. it seems hidden information in the mind can be as elusive as 'dark matter' in space.
------------------------
dear curt

i thank you, as well as lisa, for spending energy on me - a pleasant experience. what you write is possibly true - that a published artist or poet is displaying a degree of egoism and narcissism. to describe it any other way would be a challenging exercise. yet as you say, if it has the potential to "impart joy to others" then the road leading to the destination need not trespass onto forbidden territory. i cannot say with certainty that my priority is to seek recognition, but it cannot be discounted. being in the spotlight is not a comfortable situation, neither on the internet nor in everyday life. i hate going to the dentist, for example, and that is precisely why i go for frequent check-ups, to overcome and exorcise the fear, to convince myself that anxiety is a non-poisonous snake.
two butterflies.jpg
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Jean Fournell
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Jean Fournell »

___________________________________________________
Therefore know that you must become one with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the target
to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

(Just a filthy beggar blessing / What happens to the heart)
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

Hello Curt! Thank you for your response and for your interesting suggestions as to one's motivations for posting things on forums like this. It may well be the case that your assessments are correct, at least, for some people.

Of course, I think it may sometimes be the case that, when a person makes assumptions about other people's thoughts/beliefs/motivations, etc., those assumptions may more strongly reflect the thoughts/beliefs/motivations of the person making the assumptions, rather than those of the people they are analysing. There is, I have noticed, an apparent tendency amongst some people to assume that other people share their thought processes, but I have also found that this is not always so (that is, that people can have very different thoughts/beliefs from others), and thus there is no guarantee that just because I, or you, think/feel a certain way about a certain thing, that others will also think/feel that way.

Therefore, I generally only like to speak for myself, seldom presuming to know anything about what is going on in another's head (or, being ready to admit that when I do make such presumptions/assumptions, I may be totally wrong!). I also try to eschew phrases like "everybody thinks...", or "we all do...", because broad generalisations/universalisations irritate me (although, admittedly, these probably slip into my parlance from time to time due to their being so ubiquitous in common speech).

However, I have to admit that your post made me feel rather self-conscious about posting here -- I suppose I sometimes think, due to the minimal responses and few participants, that this little corner of cyberspace is somewhat private. But of course, that is just an illusion (perhaps one that I like to believe, and/or which makes it easier for me to post here, thinking that only a few eyes will ever see it), whereas in reality, it is open to virtually anyone in the world. Perhaps I ought to be more mindful of that in future.


Hello Geoffrey! I did not actually expect answers to the questions in my above post -- it was mostly rhetorical, just my musing aloud about the possible nature of your posts (and, of posting in general), while bearing in mind your own apparent tendency to enjoy analysing people, based on many of your previous posts in which you have done so. I suppose that I was simply pointing out the difficulties in doing that sort of analysis on others, expressing my belief that it is not as simple and straightforward as some people (not necessarily you) would like to think, due to the complexity of the mind (or at least, the complexities of some peoples' minds! I suspect that your mind is rather complex, although I also have my suspicions that you do not ascribe as much complexity to the minds of most others, again, based on things you've written here, but I could be wrong!).

Nonetheless, thank you for providing such a thoughtful response, even if it was not required nor necessary!


Hello Jean! I am not sure to whom your YouTube link was directed, but I assure you that I was not asking personal questions of Geoffrey, nor was I expecting him to answer and to share personal information about his life (although, he does not seem too bothered by doing so, based on his many posts that seem to be of a rather personal nature). In fact, I have found many of Geoffrey's posts to be more personal than most, in public spaces, with him often seeming to share extremely personal details about his life, but, as I suggested above, I cannot be certain whether his posts reflect his real life, or just the one he wants us to think he has, or perhaps a combination thereof!

Again, and most emphatically, I do not expect Geoffrey nor anyone else (nor do I even want him or anyone else) to provide answers and clarifications to these musings. Rather, I am simply stating things that I bear in mind about the possible nature of internet forum posts (and about analysing people in general), and my belief that forum posts, in particular, do not lend easily to accurate analysis, based on all that I do not know about the people who post them.

Thus, I am not asking for answers -- I am, if anything, merely imploring people to question what they think they know about others, and to question their own justification (or lack thereof) for such beliefs. Critical thinking, Socratic method, that sort of thing -- I like to encourage it!

I also like to encourage self-analysis -- as Geoffrey suggested, putting oneself on a microscope slide -- because at least that is something to which a person has more-or-less direct access, unlike the minds of others, and thus one, in theory, ought to be able to make presumptions/assumptions about oneself that stand a chance of being fairly accurate (unless one is extremely self-delusional). That's another little bit of Socratic wisdom that bears consideration: Know Thyself! (Personally, I rather enjoy introspection.)

All the best, everyone! Cheers!
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Jean Fournell
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Jean Fournell »

Hello Lisa,

please be reassured! My link was not aimed at anyone, it was just an association.
Georges Brassens wrote this song as a reaction to suggestions that he might become more famous (and make more money) if he got himself involved in a few scandals.

According to what I read here and there and it was confirmed by a friend who did some 15-20 years of psychoanalysis , only oneself can analyse oneself.
The psychoanalyst's role is largely that of a witness, except where the flow of free associations washes hidden things out of their nooks. Then the analyst is supposed to say something like "Hey, and what have we got here?" in order to point out that some repressed material has popped up.

Some time ago I started writing a text conceived as a sequel to a "Heart Sutra" post of mine in the "Other writers and writing" section. The maxim "Know Thyself" is part of that text, and I'll include this link to a Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself
from which I copied this 17th century illustration:

Stork.png
Stork.png (242.95 KiB) Viewed 1360 times

Introspection is no less of a problem than other human enterprises...
___________________________________________________
Therefore know that you must become one with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the target
to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

(Just a filthy beggar blessing / What happens to the heart)
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

Jean Fournell wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:52 pm ...According to what I read here and there and it was confirmed by a friend who did some 15-20 years of psychoanalysis , only oneself can analyse oneself.
The psychoanalyst's role is largely that of a witness, except where the flow of free associations washes hidden things out of their nooks. Then the analyst is supposed to say something like "Hey, and what have we got here?" in order to point out that some repressed material has popped up.

...Introspection is no less of a problem than other human enterprises...

Hello again, Jean! I agree about your assessment of psychoanalysis: I've always believed that a good psychotherapist asks a client how they are feeling/thinking, while a bad one tells a client!

I disagree, however, with your final sentiment: I believe that there are far greater problems that some humans face than an attempt at self-awareness. ;-) But, of course, as with everything else (and, related to what I wrote in my last post), it rather depends upon the person: it may well be a greater problem for some than for others, but, as with most things, this is not something that I can know with any certainty and is thus merely an hypothesis based on my own minimal personal experience chatting with others about their habits (or lack thereof) with regards to introspection.

Great picture, by the way - wonderfully weird!

Anyway, I have said my bit on this subject, and I shall leave it at that! Cheerio!
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Jean Fournell
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Jean Fournell »

Jean Fournell wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:52 pm Introspection is no less of a problem than other human enterprises...
LisaLCFan wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:42 am I believe that there are far greater problems that some humans face than an attempt at self-awareness. ;-)

I agree, obviously.

But then I think that in most cases hunger, disease, old age, and death are not exactly "human enterprises"…
___________________________________________________
Therefore know that you must become one with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the target
to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

(Just a filthy beggar blessing / What happens to the heart)
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

me in front
my 'family'.jpg
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending regressionary

Post by LisaLCFan »

Geoffrey wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:13 pm me in front

I always assumed that you were older. That's yet another thing that one cannot ascertain from a forum post: the age of the poster. You write and draw/paint remarkably well for a preadolescent child -- well done, young lad!

;-)
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending regressionary

Post by Geoffrey »

LisaLCFan wrote:
>I always assumed that you were older. That's yet another thing that one cannot ascertain from a forum post: the age of the poster. You write and draw/paint remarkably well for a preadolescent child -- well done, young lad!

;-)
----------------------------------
well, to be honest, that photo was taken a while ago. i am actually a little older now, at least physically ;-). its release was inspired by your observance of my tendency to share personal details. you see, i come from good stock on my father's side, but he played no part in my upbringing, and it is important that people accept me for the person i am. the people i grew up with were travelling people for the most part, rural areas, herefordshire, gloucestershire, south wales. on occasions, as in this picture, my 'stepfather' got work as a farm labourer or sheep shearer, and was then allowed to park our 'living van' on nearby land. he was a brutal man, but provided food for us, wood pigeons and rabbits mostly, occasionally a hedgehog. i lived this life for 12 years - from age 3 to 15.
its4inthemorning
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by its4inthemorning »

Geoffrey wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:43 pm LisaLCFan wrote:
>I always assumed that you were older. That's yet another thing that one cannot ascertain from a forum post: the age of the poster. You write and draw/paint remarkably well for a preadolescent child -- well done, young lad!
Lisa, you have managed to keep your wicked sense of humor hidden until now. We can always use a laugh, and that was a good one. [I guess I could have saved keystrokes and just said LOL, I am just old-fashioned.]

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gaiety

Post by LisaLCFan »

Thanks, 4, glad to have spread some cheer!

As for your rather minor verbosity (I may sometimes be guilty of such things, myself ;-) ), I've always preferred actual words over abbreviations -- they are infinitely more interesting. Besides, it is nice when a person takes the time to type a real message!
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gaiety

Post by Geoffrey »

"if there's any message in my songs then i'm the last one to know about it. i'm like a rat at the bottom of a barrel trying to sink his teeth into something."
message.jpg
Oscotarach
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Re: never-ending gaiety

Post by Oscotarach »

Magnífico, señor. Tu obra es la mano de Dios!
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