Battle of the sexes?

This is for your own works!!!
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:16 am

Ah, call it what you will, Ves.....facts about abuse are facts about abuse. Sorry that you continue to link them to Georges. Better be careful, or he may get upset with you.
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Vesuvius
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Post by Vesuvius » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:34 am

Ciao Lizzytysh,

It's too late to cover your tracks. You were not speaking of "facts about abuse". You were speaking of George and abuse. The abuse he supposedly has been heeping on women. What happened to all those "clues"? Those "clues" of abuse that you can recognize from a person's "conversation". Those "clues" you get from his poetry. Or did that fact that George could bring a suit of law against you make you think twice about accusing a man without proof?


Vesuvius
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:07 am

:lol: ~ I'm so Ciao'y, Ves, that I can't educate you in a day on the many, institutionalized factors relating to and re-enforcing abuse. I can't make you understand how people's conversation can be so riddled with clues that, sitting in a restaurant, hearing the conversations of people at your own table will reveal much. I can't read you my postings with the proper paw-ses and inflections that will bring you accurate understanding of their meaning. Just file the papers......I'll address them when I get them :wink: .

While preparing, however, don't overlook the component of Slander that requires proof of loss of income, resulting from said remarks.

Poor Georges, being drug through the mud for nothin'. And here I thought you liked him.
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Vesuvius
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Post by Vesuvius » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:21 am

Lizzytysh,

The mud is on your hands. And you have done the dragging. Once again you indirectly say that George's conversation is "riddled with clues". You are no friend of George.

Vesuvius
George.Wright
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Post by George.Wright » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:48 am

When somebody writes a poem, it does not have to reflect their lifestyle.
There is a message in this poem that some fail to see........
Georges
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:07 pm

Yes, you're absolutely right, Georges, it doesn't necessarily [it doesn't necessarily not/it doesn't necessarily] reflect one's own reality. What is the message in the poem that I'm failing to see? Please tell me.
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Post by George.Wright » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:35 pm

Males fight and females do not, they create or recieve. However the female and the male take this whole scenario as a ritual. Both love to be abused by each other, that is where the power lies. It is the ritual in- bewteen the fighting ie the making up, that shows Powerfull love.
Its like a mating ritual.
Georges
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:01 pm

Hi Georges ~ Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. Unfortunately, the message isn't accurate. One could be amazed by the incidence of abusive behaviour perpetrated by females onto males. It often goes unreported/unaddressed due to males' shame [the same issue that females feel, for slightly different reasons], for the reasons incorporated in your poem. They [if anyone] are presumed to be the 'aggressor,' so admitting to abuse carries an additional layer of shame, the 'male-ego'/'societal expectation' one.

If you package men and women into stereotypes, then "males fight and females do not, they create or receive." However, there are gentle, passive males and highly aggressive females that throw these stereotypes out the window. It's the same kind of stereotyping [that has long been problematical, when a sexual molestation case got investigated] that has resulted in the male siblings not being questioned when a young girl has been molested ~ and the young boy has, too, but the perception was that this only happens to girls, so he was left to suffer in silence.

The violent relationship between a man and a woman is not the norm, nor taken to be a ritual between them [which suggests an agreed-upon activity].

Your conclusions are erroneous, Georges:

"Both love to be abused by each other, that is where the power lies." ~ The abused does not love being abused. The abuser is not being abused in the scenario you have created with your words.

"It is the ritual in- between the fighting, ie the making up, that shows Powerfull love." ~ This is not "Powerfull love" ~ it is often phrased the "honeymoon period in the cycle of abuse"; it is part of the deadly web of abuse; it is what adds to the downward spiral of loss of self-esteem, feelings of powerlessness, and desperate feelings of isolation and no-way-out in the abused, all of which stand in the way of their seeking outside help, to extricate themselves from the web.

"Its like a mating ritual." ~ This is not a "mating ritual" ~ it is warring; and at best, co-dependency between two people who lack healthy feelings of internal, personal power. Mating rituals proceed in positive fashion and involve coo'ing and other affirming actions.

To mistake abuse for "Love" is to add to its deadly cycle. "Love shouldn't hurt" ~ a phrase of truth to keep in mind [not coined by me].

~ Elizabeth
LaurieAK
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Post by LaurieAK » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:39 pm

georges wrote:
Males fight and females do not, they create or recieve. However the female and the male take this whole scenario as a ritual. Both love to be abused by each other, that is where the power lies. It is the ritual in- bewteen the fighting ie the making up, that shows Powerfull love.
Its like a mating ritual.
Georges, i strongly disagree with the message of your poem and your explanation.

Having witnessed this 'battle' in my life as a child. And briefly experiencing it first hand as a very young adult, i gotta say something here.

There is nothing "powerful" or love-like in a violent relationship. It is dysfunctional in all aspects.

An abuser in the least has no self control and love is not an impetous to violence. This could be a male of female. Abusing is an act of pure Self Indulgence. The peripheral act of the abuser being verry sorry, and the abused needing for many reasons (all flawed) to stay in the relationship, and the high drama, high endorphin climax that this drama will produce is not a picture of a powerful love or "mating ritual." It is warped. Dysfunctional. And god help the child who must witness this insanity.

Laurie
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