How will I live?

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witty_owl
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How will I live?

Post by witty_owl » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:44 am

How do I live? For Kush Laurie and Zabka;- here is a poem that was posted at the "blue" board in the early days of my visiting that Cohen site. This is a distillation of thoughts and feelings from many years of happy wandering/exploring the Australian wilderness.

Walking In Places Untended. Feb. 2000.

Walking in places untended
Footsteps where few have stepped before
A scent, a sound, a glimpse espied at peripheral vision.
Turning to focus, the fleeting vanishes but
Still,- remains the presence.

Skirting the base of an ancient peak,
Something scurries for shelter.
Where gnarled, twisted trunks
Defend their place among the elements.
And great boulders crack and split,
Falling in shards and grains onto the Promethean ground.

Eroded by rivers of moisture and time,
Blasted by oceans of air and tongues of fire,
The earth brings forth her fruit but
Yields not, all her secrets.

Upon a smoothly worn pedestal of rock I rest,
And gaze across a rippling sea of trees,
Punctuated by outcrops of resistant rock.
Here, the dreaming conjoins the rational with
The unknown, the instinctive with the marvellous.

Eons come and go, still, the song remains consistent.
Still, the senses filter the gifts of the garden.
Still! the heart is beating.
Still! the body is feeling.
Still! the mind is reeling.
Still! the spirit is creating.
Still, the laughter of the universe echoes
Throughout this earthly realm.
Still, the movement of thought inquires,until all is
Still,- at the centre.

(c) J.W.
Cheers W.O.
George.Wright
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Post by George.Wright » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:37 pm

very close to nature or atavism. Huxley in the doorways to perception lists wanderings alone as a way to self realisation or spiritual uplift. Some people take kick starts like lsd or mescalin. Nice perceptions in the poem to the realisation of the forces of nature, which are wonderfull.
Thanks for sharing, Witt.
Georges
Last edited by George.Wright on Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
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witty_owl
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Post by witty_owl » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:34 pm

George you're welcome (re sharing). This poem is much closer to revealing who I am as opposed to the things I write about the human condition. Somehow it seems to be more difficult to successfully write about nature or love or feeling happy/content without sounding trite or banal. Look at the songs and poems of Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Roger Waters, Joni Mitchell to name a few of the more significant. How much of their writing says I am happy and the sun is shining, it is a lovely day because my girlfriend/boyfriend is a joy; bla bla bla. It is an indication of our times perhaps that the best songwriting/poetry comes from the anguish, pain, suffering, depression or outrage at the manifestations of the human condition.
NATURE is all there is! The forces of nature are the source of our being. We are animals fundamentally and no amount of sophistry, theology, philosophy, or social and political ideology can ever change that.
Yes we have become very clever primates indeed and all our inventions (such as the internet) are marvellous and great tools for whatever purpose we deem fit, but we should be on guard not to be feeling overly smug, clever or important because we can achieve so much as we manipulate our environment. We have developed/ evolved a highly complex consciousness and system of language but the sophisticated notions that are a consequence of minds are the source of our problems; not the animal nature that is the ground of our being.
:o Now that is a rave!
George I am not sure I understand the context of your comment re avatism?

Cheers, Witty Owl.
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Post by George.Wright » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 pm

Sorry, Witt. My spellings, again!!! Atavism, reverting back to your anchestors or used in connection with nature. Your perceptions change in the presence of oneness or nature. Look at how this was portrayed in the film, "Picnic at Hanging rock", by peter weir, one of your countrymen. Jesus himself went wandering in the desert for some time, although some people say he went to India. Your senses sharpen in the wild, and you may see things like elementals or fairies or sense the dreaming. Town people have no idea of what we are discussing...........
Georges
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:07 pm

I like the poem very much. I cannot agree with much of what you say in the post though. As always....our outlook is fundamentally different on life.
Last edited by Kush on Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by witty_owl » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:13 pm

Okay George I get it now. Yes I have felt a sense of connection with my ancestors in some of the remote places I have been. And not only my aboriginal (human) ancestors but all my biological and botanical ancestors as well. I have also caught glimpses of understanding as to how aboriginal people ascribed personality or character attributes to inanimate objects such as rocks or mountains in the substance of their dreaming.

Regards, Witty Owl. c

Kush I see by your edit you have clarified a little. However is discussion/opinions a simple matter of like or dislike. Or are we attempting to reach an understanding? Maybe we are not "fundamentally" so different if our differing viewpoints lead to a new comprehension via discussion. :?:
Last edited by witty_owl on Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by witty_owl » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:18 pm

Kush you do not like the post following? Elaborate if you will. Why do you like the poem? Why do you not like the post ------------

Regards, Witty Owl.
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Post by LaurieAK » Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:22 pm

WO~

Kush and i are in agreement again. At least on the surface.
(And btw, you won't find my poems to be songs of joy...)

I was really impressed with your poems connection and regard for nature...but then your post following drags back to that ragged human condition we perpetuate.
NATURE is all there is! The forces of nature are the source of our being.
The above statement i totally agree with. Nature is not kind. She is perfect in relation to what must be done. Every plant has a reason as does every vole. Mankinds 'inhumanity' is ultimately against nature and not itself. There is no 'cure' for the human condition. We were once not docile, labotomy-like societies, even in the primate stage if that is what you believe. Conflict. Resolution. Food. Art. Ideas. Love. Hate. Nothing in current human nature is dispensible...it is counter to our nature.

I believe our thoughts generate reality. I think that is why your stance on the 'human condition' bothers me. I respect your right to have this opinion, but my "nature" causes me to want to change it :evil: Bit of a bastard i suppose. :shock: Regards, Laurie in Alaska
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:39 pm

WO - Sorry if I came across as abrupt. I'll elaborate later on when I have time for a lengthy post. I don't mean to be antagonistic just for the heck of it but this perpetual dance of despair, i have a problem with that. Peace.
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Post by witty_owl » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:57 am

Laurie, you said "nature is not kind". Others have said "nature is red in tooth and claw". However I think that the processes and cycles of nature are really beyond any moral judgement we might like to ascribe. The endless consuming and being consumed is like "love". It makes the world go round. In Casteneda's books Don Juan Matus talks on the nature of the universe as being an eagle and when it comes our time to die, the eagle consumes our awareness. So here again is a viewpoint that describes Nature(the universe) as being predatorial and maybe, that is how it is. Even so it is not a reason to fear nature or judge it as good or bad, kind or nasty etc. Moral judgements are really for assessing the actions and intents of humans; how we interact with and regard each other.
BTW my stance on the human condition is not "mine" as such. The viewpoint I am developing at present is from many sources including as far back in time as Plato. You may be right that there is no "cure" for the human condition but if my reading and perceptions at present are valid then you may well be wrong. Most humans are in state of resignation as to what is our nature fundamentally, and also in denial that there is even a problem to solve? This happens to most of us in the transition from child to adult. When a child asks of the adult world - "why are we so often so hateful, violent, cruel with each other? Is our true nature selfish, greedy and cruel or is it selfless, co-operative and loving?" The adult world (teachers parents etc.) has no answers and so the child becomes resigned to accepting that things in the human world are not ideal. This state of resignation allows the developing adult to avoid the crippling depression that accompanies the effort of trying to behave ideally (ie. living up to the god notion- our ideal state). The fact that depression is becoming one of the most prevalent and serious mental health problems for humans gives weight to this argument. What do you think Liz? As a counsellor- is depression the most common problem you have to work with re clients?
I see that the viewpoint of most humans is one that hinders or sabotages our progress. But that is not how we really want to be. Deep in our soul we know that things have been different and they can be different in the future. Perhaps that which we call a 'soul' is our collective memory of a time when we were ideally behaved (co-operative, loving, selfless) and the "garden of eden" is a story that alludes to that time when there was no inner conflict between our instincts (genetic memory) and our moral codes (nerve based memory)
Sorry If I seem to be labouring a point but my current reading is ringing bells and this author (Jeremy Griffith) may well be onto something vital for all of us.

Kind regards, The student Owl.
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Post by LaurieAK » Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:28 am

Mr. Owl~

Thanks for the well thought out response.

But, you got at least Me, all wrong. I am far from "resigned." I don't place problems, sins, unjustness or accidents on a deity. I subscribe exclusively to each individual being responsible for their own destiny. And believe negative thoughts are self fulfilling prophesies as are positive.
"why are we so often so hateful, violent, cruel with each other? Is our true nature selfish, greedy and cruel or is it selfless, co-operative and loving?"
Both. I say it is both...all of the above.
Deep in our soul we know that things have been different and they can be different in the future. Perhaps that which we call a 'soul' is our collective memory of a time when we were ideally behaved (co-operative, loving, selfless) and the "garden of eden" is a story that alludes to that time when there was no inner conflict between our instincts (genetic memory) and our moral codes (nerve based memory)
This does not speak for me. Ideally behaved? No inner conflicts? This sort of reminds me of the lion/lamb christian version of "heaven" that even as a child sounded boring as hell (pun intended) to me. I still say this sounds like labotomy-ville.

You have the advantage or dis-advantage of being steeped in reading the theories of many others. I have read Castenada. Also Jane Roberts (Seth). And a few other minor new age ponderings. In the end I walked away with a Faith in myself. And anything but a cynical view of mankind.

But, it is probably obvious i am out of my league discussing these issues. Especially with one so well read. And I mean that!
cheerio, laurie
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Post by lizzytysh » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:04 pm

Hi Witty ~

What I've personally seen is that depression very often comes hand-in-hand with the other issues that have brought people's behaviours to me. Sometimes, it seems the chicken or the egg. However, it is something that's rampant in the U.S. Of course, I feel that the stress our society puts on materialism and the endless quest for acquisition vs. concentration on spiritual matters, and positive, growth-oriented interaction with each other creates a disparity between goals and goals met that leads to/becomes part of the 'depression mix.'

It seems that the reptilian part of our brain gets too much activation. As I understand it, the warring [you did me wrong and now I'm going to retaliate; you have more than I have and now I'm going to get more than you have; etc.] part of us seems to get too much stimulation. As long as we continue to act out of the lowest part of ourselves, progress will be difficult. Again, as I understand it, the limbic ["mama"] part of our brain, from whence music, the arts, culture, etc. originate needs to be continually more stimulated, so that the creative, nurturing and loving part of ourselves can grow more, and we can progress [no panacea, of course :( ].

~ Lizzy
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Vesuvius
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Post by Vesuvius » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:18 am

Ciao to the Witty Owl!

I do not think you have a reptilian brain at all. Do not let others keep you from posting such thoughtful, though depressing, verse.

Vesuvius
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