what if instead Lorca the influence would have been Vallejo

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
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MarioJoel
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what if instead Lorca the influence would have been Vallejo

Post by MarioJoel » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:09 am

I am thinking that Cesar Vallejo is argueably the best Spanish language poet ever. What if LC had come to him first.
I know that he came across Vallejo later, still he said beautiful words about him (in one of his poems)

Well, it's open...
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MarioJoel
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Sorry, my post continues

Post by MarioJoel » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:02 pm

I am sorry, my post intend continues here. As I was saying, what kind of LC we would have had had LC recieved Cesar Vallejo's influence. What leads me to this question is the fact that while both the Spanish and the Peruvian poet lived similar political lives. That of Cesar Vallejo's is deeper into philosophy and the human spirit.

THE NEXT ONE ("Things are better in Milan ...)" from Death of a Lady's Man
Things are better in Milan.
Things are a lot better in Milan.
My adventure has sweetened.
I met a girl and a poet.
One of them was dead
and one of them was alive.
The poet was from Peru
and the girl was a doctor.
She was taking antibiotics.
I will never forget her.
She took me into a dark church
consecrated to Mary.
Long live the horses and the saddles.
The poet gave me back my spirit
which I had lost in prayer.
He was a great man out of the civil war.
He said his death was in my hands
because I was the next one
to explain the weakness of love.
The poet was Cesar Vallejo
who lies at the floor of his forehead.
Be with me now great warrior
whose strength depends solely
on the favors of a woman.
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ForYourSmile
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Post by ForYourSmile » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:16 am

This poem is a nice tribute.

"The poet gave me back my spirit
which I had lost in prayer."


Vallejo had a bigger political commitment than Lorca and Cohen. All them are wonderful and incomparable poets.

Image

Image

Vallejo by Picasso




If you are enclosed in a cage, you cannot write to us.
If you love Vallejo, you cannot be a torturer.
Who lives in Guantánamo?
MarioJoel
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Thanx

Post by MarioJoel » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:06 pm

Thanks FYS,

I have been fancing what did Leonard Cohen possibly read from Vallejo that made him say something like that? Coming from LC every word counts. Maybe instead of "Take this Waltz" we could be listening to "I was born in a day God was sick" or "The Black Heralds," etc.

I don't quite understand this down here:
If you are enclosed in a cage, you cannot write to us.
If you love Vallejo, you cannot be a torturer.
Who lives in Guantánamo?

Anyways, I live on the other side of Guantánamo, the Cuban side. But you know what? Now that you mention it. Every man is in a state of provisional freedom.
I am Cuban
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ForYourSmile
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Post by ForYourSmile » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:30 pm

It makes me happy that you live in the good side of this wall.

LOS HERALDOS NEGROS - THE BLACK HERALDS.

Hay golpes en la vida, tan fuertes... Yo no sé
Golpes como del odio de Dios; como si ante ellos,
la resaca de todo lo sufrido
se empozara en el alma... Yo no sé

Son pocos; pero son... Abren zanjas oscuras
en el rostro más fiero y en el lomo más fuerte.
Serán tal vez los potros de bárbaros atilas;
o los heraldos negros que nos manda la muerte.

Son las caídas hondas de los Cristos del alma,
de alguna fe adorable que el Destino blasfema.
Esos golpes sangrientos son las crepitaciones
de algún pan que en la puerta del horno se nos quema.

Y el hombre... Pobre... pobre Vuelve los ojos, como
cuando por sobre el hombro nos llama una palmada;
vuelve los ojos locos, y todo lo vivido
se empoza, como un charco de culpa, en la mirada.

Hay golpes en la vida, tan fuertes... Yo no sé

Cesar Vallejo
MarioJoel
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Hey

Post by MarioJoel » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:24 pm

FYS

Do you read and understand Spanish? I have all the poetry of almost every very important poet from Cuba and the Spanish speaking world.
I work at the Personal Archives of late Poet Regino E. Boti from Gtmo.

best,
mario
I am Cuban
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Post by ForYourSmile » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:12 am

Mario,

Sí, entiendo el español aunque no es mi lengua materna. Mis problemas comienzan cuando intento expresarme en inglés.

Sinceramente no conocía a Regino E. Boti, lamento mi ignorancia, pero hoy me he documentado y me parece interesante.

http://www.cubaliteraria.cu/autor/regino_boti/index.htm

Es estupendo poderme comunicar con un cubano, siento una gran simpatía por este pueblo. En un día como hoy espero lo mejor para Cuba, pese a su desagradable vecino.

Saludos,

Antonio

Yes, I understand Spanish though it is not my language. My problems begin when I try to express in English.

Sincerely I didn't know Regino E. Boti, I am sorry about my ignorance, but today I have found it and he seems to me to be interesting.

It's marvellous to be able to communicate with a Cuban, I feel a great affection for this people. In one day as today I wish the best for Cuba, in spite of your unpleasant neighbour.
MarioJoel
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Thanks

Post by MarioJoel » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:38 am

FYS,

Thank you very much. I hope all will be well in the end. Regino is one of the greates poets of cuba. Check this one out:
by the way, where are you from?

EL PUENTE

Al amparo apacible de la tarde,
un soplo vesperal besa mi frente
mientras contemplo el postrimer alarde
de la llama del Sol, que apenas arde,
desde la enhiesta majestad del puente.

De bruces en el alto barandaje,
la noción del lugar súbito pierdo;
y embebido en la calma del paisaje
desata su oleaje
la mar embravecida del recuerdo.

Y para contrastar tanta belleza
como en mugiente gama
el ocaso derrama
en la Naturaleza,
frente al vivido encaje
que forman las montañas de mi predio,
abro el tosco paisaje
de mi reino interior: nostalgia y tedio.

En la piedra angular de mi existencia,
miro dentro de mí mismo:
y ríe la experiencia
con un cinismo
porque basta a calmar su sed de ciencia
la profesión de fe del idiotismo.

Pues sé la sabiduría del lecho
(fraude, ternura, abnegación y vicio)
con la hostia satánica no oficio
de llevar ambiciones en el pecho;
ni el opimo dulzor del sacrificio
hecho luz ante el ara de lo justo
de torcer la rodilla ante el aprecio
y escupirle al impío mi desprecio.

He ajustad – mi lanza
de punta en blanco – por cualquier idea
de Bien o de Verdad. Y mi presea
siempre fue, en la acechanza,
el lírico arrebato de la justa

Mas si he dado la espalda a la venganza
también es cierto que, infecundo leño,
mi corazón no tiene una esperanza
ni mi frente los bálsamos de un sueño.

Si de mi origen huyo
y tras mi planta
ni un rumor se levanta
¿por qué, si ya declino, no construyo?
¿por qué, si en nada creo, mi alma canta?

Árbol, no he dado sombra, flor, ni fruto;
Sol, he tenido por oriente ocaso;
y soñando en volar como Pegaso
no he sabido correr ni como un bruto.

Y en un instante desfiló el pasado
lleno de incertidumbres y dolores,
la adolescencia hundida en el pecado
y la niñez bañada de candores.
Ya retorno. ¿Qué hacer? ¿Tuerzo la ruta?
Si todo ha de morir, ¿por qué edifico?
Si todo ha de morir, ¿por qué edifico?
¿por qué clamar si no me multiplico?

Y al alejarme de los dos paisajes
vistos desde mi ensueño y desde el puente,
exégesis cambiante y nemorosa
fue la mansa corriente
que tejía con lamas sus mirajes
imperturbablemente.

Así como ella pasa interminable,
siempre mudable
y sin cesar la misma,
la existencia – que es código y es cisma –
nace del no ser en lo insondable
y en lo insondable del no se abisma.

Sí, murmuraba al caminar, y es cierto,
¿por qué nefelibata el que no siente?
¿por qué en el corazón un mundo muerto?
Yo no soy más que el puente…
Tendido, silencioso,
debo esperar el Tajo Misterioso
mientras pasa cantando la Corriente!

3 abril 1905.


I believe this is a piece of beauty

best,

mario
I am Cuban
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:53 am

Hey guys,
it's about the time that this forum becomes really multilingual.... So feel free to communicate in your mothernla language:-) Rest of us will follow as much as we can... 8)
MarioJoel
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about language

Post by MarioJoel » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:15 pm

Tom,

Estoy contento de oírte decir eso. No sé si será lo más apropiado, no sería buena idea, desde mi punto de vista, que muchos miembros quedaran fuera de lugar por problemas de no hablar ésta o aquella lengua que otro miembro use. De todos modos lo que si me encantaría es que cuando alguien envíe una poesía, trate de enviarla en el idioma en que fue escrita y si es posible una buena traducción.

Happy to hear you say that. I do not know if it is the right thing to do though. It might not be nice , from my standpoint, to have many members left in dark on account of language limitations. However, what I would really love is to see poetry sent in its original language and when possible provide a good English translation.


best,
Mario Joel
I am Cuban
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ForYourSmile
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Post by ForYourSmile » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:28 pm

Gracias Tom! :wink: But I would not feel comfortable speaking in code.

Mario,

Soy catalán, mi lengua es el catalán. Cuando era niño en la escuela solo se permitía el uso del español. Soy de Barcelona, esa donde Boti estudió en su juventud.

Una hermosa poesía, aunque he de decir que he necesitado de diccionario en algún momento.

Saludos,

Antoni (o Antonio)

I am Catalan, my language is Catalan. When I was a child in the school just the Spanish was allowed. I am from Barcelona, this where Boti studied in his youth.

A beautiful poem though I have to say that I have needed the dictionary in some moment.
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FYS

Post by MarioJoel » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:47 am

Antoni,

I was lucky enough in my life to have visited Spain. I was in Barcelona and specifically in Sitges. it was on May 2004. I was taking part in the 2nd World Domino Tournament. I have been a pro domino player for many years and have written three books about the game: history, strategy, etc.
Spain was a beautiful place to visit. Sitges put me in touch with history. My city was founded by Catalans from Sitges ( Boti's family included among the founders)

So, it makes me specially glad to be in touch with you.

best,

Mario
I am Cuban
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