Beautiful Losers and the Beats

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
humanponysss2000
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Simple is good

Postby humanponysss2000 » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:45 pm

Hi Tchocolatl

Simplistic, maybe, but you underestimate the extent to which we have been taken over by the US...

Our former PM Trudeau was a CIA asset, according to some pretty good sources, but they are not allowed to appear on the CBC news.

I don't think very much that happens in pop culture is NOT manipulated, and this goes back decades.

Country and western music is totally controlled, basically mind control for the poor --

Ginsberg's HOWL can be read as a response to early MKULTRA drugging of bright young men... "I have seen the best minds of my generation..." etc etc but I think we've been over this. Just repeating it for our young friend

What they call "the news" is mainly fiction. For example, when you compare "Saddam Hussein" as he is now, to photos of him from 5 years back, it's easy to see the man they are trying is not the real Saddam. A child can figure it out -- why doesnt the media???

Cohen's lyrics are sometimes a lullabye for broken minds, sometimes angry raging by a man mired in the irony of his own helpless choices




Tchocolatl wrote:To reduce the beats to a pilot project on mind control with LSD is simplistic, and by this I don't say that you are humanponysss2000. No. Like you I think that we are spectators and somethings actors in a big show. For example this "religion" (understand: fight for markets and money) war right now (phew, I have to pinch myself to make sure I am not in the middle of a nighmare about that), in which Bush is starring (well Reagan ran out the spotlights for a while, so he is another "face" for "Mr. President"). Canada did not want to follow Uncle Sam? BaaAaad, baaad Canada... Look what it happened to it now : change of government (music... walk in round, turn to the right, and swing your companion). And now, next : the young Canadian soldiers killed in the war. With the journalist still alive (by miracle) to witness and write all over the place about that. They will end to succeed in making Canada follows, make CA army a "real army" not those usual boy scouts. No Humanponysss2000, I think that you are quiete right about the strategy of the shadow. It exists since the night of times, it still exists now. But. Not at this point regarding the beats generation. There is other forces in action than this one in the world. So.
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Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:20 pm

This is not the reality of the will of control of some people that I find simplistic, but to think that this will is almighty.

The will of control - including mind control is not new. Think about the Catholic Church for example, and I took one among so many. I could have picked the SS efforts to control. I could have picked so many.

The "problem" is that this will of control is never almighty.

I like very much this image : "
Cohen's lyrics are sometimes a lullabye for broken minds"

Very pretty. :)
Tchocolatl
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Re: Simple is good

Postby Tchocolatl » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:26 am

humanponysss2000 wrote:Hi Tchocolatl
What they call "the news" is mainly fiction. For example, when you compare "Saddam Hussein" as he is now, to photos of him from 5 years back, it's easy to see the man they are trying is not the real Saddam. A child can figure it out -- why doesnt the media???
Saddam and turkey same battle 8) I mean Bush used a plastic turkey once to do a show in the media.

Fiction? Sometimes yes, sometimes not. But what is sure is : the same things (and only some of them) are mediated again and again.

Now this war. This is a joke. I mean it would be if it was funny. Why just don't use clean tech instead of killing people for dinausor's piss? Solar energy etc?
Tell me.

Because the majority of humans enjoy too much blood & power and suffering and money. It is still fun. Yes. Otherwise why hockey players would be paid such a unsane amount of money to hurt each other and why would people would pay to see that and would be interested to hear about the wounds this and that player has?

So. The conspiracy story, I don't go into it at 100%.

Also there is such a thing that is called "culture" which is a way of thinking, living, etc. that is shared by a group (more or less large) that could pass for brain washing as it does not always let enter new ideas, behaviors etc.

Cheers.
humanponysss2000
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Bellevue Literary Review

Postby humanponysss2000 » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:49 pm

Am I repeating myself? I found an old article from the New York Times on the Bellevue Mental Hospital which publishes a literary review. It's quite interesting to see how many writers end up hospitalized. Malcolm Lowry, William Burroughs, Greg Corso... many of the Beats... the list goes on. So Cohen was not alone, setting his novel in a mental hospital, but really... a society that locks up writers is not a normal society, and there is more going on than meets the eye.

Right now I am in Greece and the whole country is talking about war with Iran, but checking the American news on Yahoo, I see no mention of it. A country of sleepwalkers. Now the Canadian media seem to love stories about our soldiers in Afghanistan... suddenly they are 'brave' and the guy who was attacked with an axe can't wait to go back there...

I knew there would be war in Iran and Sudan this year because I happened to read a Texas oil company's annual report and they said they were folding up their project in those two countries and getting their people out -- this was in February. They control the show, we are just dummies and pawns (in their minds at least) - but then, these monsters also have a certain odour and I can smell them a mile away. They're just too ugly to pass for humans

However, I do agree with you that these people have their fantasies of power and we have other business that we should get on with -- mostly learning NOT to be VICTIMS

And I do hope Leonard is no longer toeing the neo-Con line because that is the best way I know to end up depressed
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lightning
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Postby lightning » Tue May 02, 2006 1:31 am

Unfortunately the beats you mentioned did not wind up in Bellevue for being writers but for the results of excessive drug and alcohol use deemed necessary to stimuate creative imagination and help sensitivity cope with life and its changes. No-one in there enjoys lock-up or anti-psychotic meds but in some cases it can protect life.
humanponysss2000
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Postby humanponysss2000 » Wed May 03, 2006 6:45 pm

lightning wrote:Unfortunately the beats you mentioned did not wind up in Bellevue for being writers but for the results of excessive drug and alcohol use deemed necessary to stimuate creative imagination and help sensitivity cope with life and its changes. No-one in there enjoys lock-up or anti-psychotic meds but in some cases it can protect life.


You're right, of course -- personal choice comes into it. And writers tend to need intoxicants to keep their egos well-inflated so they can convince themselves and others that their work is important.

But there are other factors, including cultural beliefs about artists, and the way they agree to be marginal in a society run by bankers and the military, who market the drugs and alcohol to "sensitive types" --

I see it as a vicious circle, where some of us get to be the hamsters and others get to keep the machinery well oiled.

Burroughs, for example, struck me as someone who was both in and of the machine --

So does Cohen, in Beautiful Losers.
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