The Favourite Game

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
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Tri-me
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Postby Tri-me » Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:46 pm

Pierre Trudeau saw a Canada that was bilengual. I envy people who come from countries that learn more than one language. We are behind that way. New Brunswick is the only officially bilengual province, I have many friends who are French, should be practicing with them :oops: . Maybe I need to find a nice French man who will close the lights and play with my hairs.
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Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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annaedith
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Postby annaedith » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:30 pm

i very much like the fact that canada is bilingual. it is good not to be restricted to only one language and, thus, way of thinking. and that was another great point for doing a practice there last year. not only that i could go and see montreal and this park mentioned so often in "the favourite game", not only that i could see a country with so much nature left untouched, but i could also practise two languages, english as it is very useful to know it good and french because i love its beauty.
tri-me, tchoco, linda and the others here that are from canada, you can be so happy to live in such a great country!
*********** beauté est partout**********
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:23 pm

I have a bit of a bi-lingual anecdote on that issue [cited a while ago ~ here? maybe on the Sony Board, too?]. In the early 1980s, I traveled to Quebec City, Montreal, and Toronto ~ just me and my four cats. Drove up from the Keys.

Landing there and needing money, I managed to get a job selling single roses ~ the variety of street seller that darts into and back out of restaurants ~ with some of the restaurants' permission or condoning of it, and others not. Not knowing French, to really speak it, I phonetically memorized my presentation, along with the jist of what to listen for, and the concluding portion, necessary to complete the transaction. Got in a few confusing situations, like the man who told me in French that if I'd deliver it to a woman across the street, he'd buy one [clarified for me by someone who, seeing my confusion :shock: , realized I did not really speak French]; and a very irritating one, like the American businessman, who was in a courtyard I was cutting through [and I decided not to miss a potential sale] very arrogantly replied, "If you want to talk to me, you're going to have to speak English!" [I didn't give him the satisfaction, preferring to just miss the potential sale].

In one restaurant, where five, very elegant women sat eating at a table, situated in a bay-windowed area, one of the women asked me in English, "Where are you from?" I replied [in English], "The United States." She responded, "Not with an accent like that you're not!" Okaaay :? :lol: . She couldn't really tell me where I sounded to be from, either ~ only that she knew it wasn't the U.S. :wink:

It is pure delight to be somewhere that you're surrounded by another language. With French/Quebecois French being so beautiful, it was really wonderful.

I agree that at least one foreign language should be mandatory from grade one on. However, here, where we're fighting to keep music and art in the curriculum [already having lost the fight in a number of areas :cry: ], that's apparently out of the question :( . When I was in school, it wasn't available until the high school level, and then strictly optional.

~ Lizzy
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Tri-me
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Postby Tri-me » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:30 pm

Yes Canada is bilingual, but sadly only around 17% of Canadians are in fact bilingual. I agree that the arts are important, we have the French immersion it has proven to work, the kids do very well get good marks. What we lack are the teachers to make the programme for all the kids. Learning languages open doors. I know people from Germany, Switzerland who speak multiple languages. People in the forum for example are multlingual, their education system has served them well. Ths is motivating me to get off my Anglophone arse and speak French with my French friends. A la prochaine mon amie, salut.
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Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:42 am

Well Ln, I suppose that this beer thing is like e-let-say? A kind of classroom to obtain the post cereal boxes degree?

I second you Anna Edith, unfortunately, some people are not taking the chance they have, but are seing the glass half empty and they complain about "having to cope" with two official languages and are picky on every "problems" it could bring and how they lives are soooooo miserable because of a peeble they are themselves making a volcano out of. Go figure! (I can't).

Lz, very interesting rose story. I hope you had a great time. BTW do you know that Maria Callas died today? I mean on this date in 1977. Oh dear, I'll remimber of your post until the end of my life. Not that I make fun in the bad sense of you, please don't misunderstood. I myself felt like a fool after having post about Superman - how real superman he became after the accident - and read just after his death what he was about lately. Yok. Old stories all this.

Ah! Tri-me that has fun again, playing her Favourite Game. Well. We went over all this don't we? Oui. Bien sûr. We, well I won't go over this again.

Statistics are like politicians, if you want to know what I think, they are saying what they are told to say. Better read a complete stat portrait, maybe, while being at it, anyway.

http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/maps/pe ... ptext_view

As for me, my reality is : I am surrounded by people who can use both official languages in a multiethnic environment - like in every North American big city, I guess - it means that people are often able to speak French, English and their native tong. Also, "officials" are all able to speak both o.l. so, really only 17% is not my day to day experience. It looks like you are talking of another country to me. 8)
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:45 am

Tchoc ~

You're not alone in always remembering the Maria Callas saga :roll: :lol: ~ G~d rest her dear soul, I owe her for some of the greatest laughs I've had on myself in my life.

~ Lizzy
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:44 pm

Walking around my ivory tour a little I want to update my last post about bilingualism, I want to stress - again - that not everybody are perfectly (But perfection is not of this world. Some are perfectly fluent, most are good in the second language, which is far from being bad, some are bad but improving with practice) fluent in both languages and some are only able to speak, not to write, others are too shy to speak with an accent, so they don't, but are writing well, and some others are only able to speak their native language plus one of the 2 o.l. here. And also, when - as we "said" in another thread - one rarely uses a language, one is rusty and losts the fluency. And some others only speak one or the 2 o.l. All in all it does not matter a lot, 'cause good willing souls get around well with each others, in any case, there is a freedom to be different. Maybe this is why it is so peaceful here. Many cultural communities are leaving in peace (again not in perfection but in peace, yes) sharing the same land, here, while some in their respective native countries, they fight like hell, killing each others every day. They are very happy to have a peacefull place to live and raise their children in security.

Now I can understand that people who don't have to use another language can not see the interest of learning it, or if so, don't have the occasion to practice, so are not able to use it in a comfortable pleasant manner for them (which I don't care at all, believe me, not at all), but I can not understand unilingualism at some extremes like, let say, try to force other people not to use another language or condemn the use of it in any forms - don't come to me with the money argument because it is only a fake argument to say "i don't care" or are hating or are violent with people who are using another language. This, I can not understand. For me differences of all kinds are richness. Differences are really not the problem. Intolerance is. End of the udpdate.

Lz, yes. Thanks again. But I'm beginning to come over this, now. :wink:
I hope that Maria Callas could share that laughters also, as she was a sad lady according to her bios. She sang so... wow... though. What a voice. What a great artist. Unique. :D
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linda_lakeside
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Postby linda_lakeside » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:57 pm

Tchoco,

Of course intolerance is the problem. It always has been. There are many forms of intolerance, the old 'if you're not with us you're against us' frame of mind'.

When I was very young, I was fluent in two languages. Danish and English. As my father stopped speaking to me in Danish, I lost the language. The same would apply if I were to take night courses in French as, where I live now, there is no one I know who speaks French. I do not know one person who speaks French! I'd love to see this country as truly bilingual, but it has to start at the very top and they, the politicians, are cutting funding to education.

Some time ago, you posted a link that likened Quebec to the Dominatrix of Canada, and I, at that time, mentioned that B.C. is considered Beside Canda. In many ways that's true. French is not a required language and is not taught in elementary school, as it should be. Of course, our Government would like us to think that they're working hard to make us a a bilingual nation. Have you noticed that Paul Martin only speaks French when he addesses Quebec or is on the campaign trail?

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt in all this with the little plastic whistle comment that comes in cereal boxes.

Linda.
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:45 pm

You are argumenting like a Parti Québécois separatist, Ln. :lol:

I don't think that Québec is the Dominatrix of Canada. I posted this in a certain context. I think that some people in Canada feels like Québec does things to them by force, while, in fact, it is their own intolerance that are dominating them. They just don't want French Canadian phenomenon to be in a way or another, in Canada or in a separate Québec. Anything else is perceived as being "trouble making". Very Funny. So to speak.

Anyway this is not the matter here. Well. I know what you mean, in some regions, here, some people are talking French only. English is Chinese for them for the same reasons you mentionned above : they don't have to use it at all in any of their day-to-day activity.

I'm always puzzled when people goes into Ah! Oh! Ey! when it is question of being a separate country here, as we already are. What the plastictoy it will matter if it would be officialized? I just hope I'll live to see this. Soon. :D
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linda_lakeside
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Postby linda_lakeside » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:57 pm

For you, I hope so, too, Tchoco. :)

Linda.
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:39 pm

Thanks, Miss Canada. :D If also it could be like that in real life. :wink:
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linda_lakeside
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Postby linda_lakeside » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:22 pm

Mademoiselle Canada...so, that plastic toy in my cornflakes was a little crown and sash!! How exciting.

I'm very glad it was only a 'partial eclipse of Tchocolatl', not the 'total eclipse' we had previously feared.

Adieu
Linda. :D
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Tri-me
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Postby Tri-me » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:37 am

Go ahead name your cat Leonardcohen, see what happens....
The mother of the man I share a clinic space with, she works as a receptionist a couple of days a week, has the film on VHS she is going to lend it to me. I will let you know when I see it. A friend gave me a copy of Famous Blue Raincoat on the same day. booga booga. Bernadette makes me misty, Jennifer Warnes is a perfect match for Leonard Cohen's songs, she has a beautiful voice.
Buttinface was neutered on Friday, he weighs 7.8lbs 3.4kg he's only six months. He had a rough start but is making up for it, he's huge, not fat.

I love Quebec, Montreal and Quebec City are my two favourite cities. My resolution is to take control of my food addictions, sweets :evil: and to learn French 8) .
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
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linda_lakeside
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Postby linda_lakeside » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:54 am

I want to learn French as well. I'm better at 'conversational' French than writing it. I'm not all that good at conversational French either. But it's a start. Maybe we can learn it together? Like French immersion.

I'm glad leonardcohen is doing better. Tres bien. Excuse moi, il faut que je part.

A bientot
Linda.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:24 am

WoW, Tri-me ~ You're right :) . He's HUGE :D ! Ol' Leonardcohen Buttinface.

"Song of Bernadette" has the same effect on me.

When I made that trip, Quebec City and Montreal topped out over Toronto for me, too.

~ Lizzy

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