Secret co-writer of "Chelsea Hotel"?

[Kjelling]

Tom,

I didn't realize that Field Commander Cohen is edited to such an extent! (By the way, is the interview you refer to available online?) It is stated in the booklet that songs are taken from different shows, as is natural -- but that portions of individual tracks were cut and pasted here and there is news to me.

It makes for a better listening experience, but at the same time it raises the question of where one should draw the line. I don't know -- I love the FCC album, but now I don't regard it as that much of a document of the 1979 tour.

As far as I know, BMI (Broadcast Music Incorporated) was created to maintain the royalties of radio play. Ron Cornelius says he still gets paid for performances of "Chelsea Hotel". As for owning the publishing rights, that is required for giving permission to (and receiving money from) licensing music to commercials and movies, publication of words and music in books etc. But then, IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

As for the BBC airing of the IOW songs by Cohen -- no, I don't have it, and would very much like to hear it.

[tomsakic]

Hi Kjelling,

sadly, the interview dissapeared long ago, here's Leanne's page at http://www.StudioExpresso.com, and they still link the interview originally published by StduioSound/Mel Lambert site.


About BBC rec in pm.

[tomsakic]

I found it, they changed the name of the server ("mel-lambert.com" has to be replaced with "mediamarketing.com" in URL):
http://www.mediaandmarketing.com/Writer ... Ungar.html

The interview is still linked from Articles page of http://www.mel-lambert.com

Where we could, I took an entire track, and did only minor touch ups. My philosophy was to pick the brilliant performance, and then sift through the track listening for parts that were keeping my ear from focusing on that brilliance. If I came across anything that startled me, or annoyed me - took me out of the "moment" - then I would look for ways to remedy it. Maybe go to a different night or another concert for a note or a phrase. There was surprising little to do, however.

[lizzytysh]

I could probably figure it out, Tom, but let me take the lazy way here, if you don't mind... who is doing the speaking in the quote you've brought here? Thanks .

~ Lizzy

[tomsakic]

Leanne Ungar. It's from the interview I linked.

[lizzytysh]

Ah, okay. Thanks . What she said makes sense, of course . Very little up for removal .

~ Lizzy

[nsps]

Hi Tom and Kjelling,

I'm new here, and replying to a month-old conversation. I don't know if we should just start a new topic on the remasters, since this one already has enough hard-to-follow tangents.

Anyway, I thought I'd give Tom some info on this:

Do I have to say that I see this for the first time?

My CD (and I'm in the US) has this basic design, with a few changes:

1. Because the UPC barcode is proportionally larger than the LP, the "The locked up a man..." text is considerably smaller, and the barcode is next to it.

2. In the black space next to Leonard's picture is the album's track listing, a credit for songs by LC and produced by BJ.

I was always surprised that the CD spine even had white text on black, since pretty much every Columbia CD from an older (pre-90s?) album is red text on white.

Does this mean I have the reissued version? There's a Best Value sticker on the case. Is there any way to tell if my copies of those three albums are remastered (maybe based on the serial numbers on the CD)?

Each of my copies of the first five studio albums has some sort of artwork on the back. Unfortunately, I've never gotten my hands on any vinyl to compare the packaging. VP and IYM are only text.

Regarding the question of whether they would continue to press discs of inferior quality, the answer is no. Once the masters have been made, the cost is the same to produce CDs from either master. There'd be no point in using the old version. If they still had copies of the old version, however, they may or may not sell them, depending on their quality priorities (many labels put the old versions out of print for a while before releasing the new versions).

As for Field Commander Cohen, I didn't know about the editing, but it doesn't surprise me. Many bands actually overdub solos and stuff in the studio, so it's somewhat impressive to use all live recordings. I don't approve of applause being added though, especially since it distracts from the music. Is there only more applause because they used a different solo? Also, the audience is usually mic'ed and recorded on a separate track, so discrepancies in other recordings could result from different mixes.

Also Tom, by "low sound," do you mean too bassy, or too quiet?

I'm sorry that this post is so long.

[tomsakic]

I mean to quite - I have to pump put the volume to the very high degree to actually hear Various Positions...

About the adding of the applause - as far I remember, when Filed Commander Cohen came out, there were some fans complaining that they hvae audience recordings from those gigs, and there's no such massive ovations to John Bilezikjian's oud on Lover Lover Lover. So my guess is that applause was added from some other night.

I also saw Songs of Love and Hate at the place were I was among the guests. They have US releases, as they lived in US for number of years. And indeed, their Sony CD release has back artwork as you described it, similat to the one above (LP version), with traclist added and smaller font. Also, their "Best Of" was different from my European "Greatest Hits" - there was list of producers on back artwork, and different drawing. I think there's drawing of a kneeling woman (or a man) on my version, dated in Montreal, and with some unusal letters.

[tomsakic]

US version of Best Of?



European Greatest Hits.

[nsps]

Yeah, that's what the back of the US "Best of" looks like. That drawing doesn't sound familiar to me, but I'll let you know if it's inside the liner notes once I have them in my hand.

Is the follow-up called "More Greatest Hits" over there? The discography here has both covers, with the same design but different titles under LC's name.

[tomsakic]

No, it's simple More Best Of. Funny, we have Greatest Hits and More Best Of.

[jarkko]

This is already the 10th page in this thread, and the topic has changed several times, but I turn back to the original discussion about the role of Ron Cornelius in the lyrics of "Chelsea Hotel".

This is from Leonard (quoted here with his permission):

Ron Cornelius and I had dinner the other night.
Twenty years since we saw each other last.
Our old friendship was still there.
His memory is better than mine.
From now on, let it be known
we wrote Chelsea Hotel together.

[Geoffrey]

Leonard wrote to Jarkko:
>Ron Cornelius and I had dinner the other night. Twenty years since we saw each other last. Our old friendship was still there. His memory is better than mine. From now on, let it be known we wrote Chelsea Hotel together.

Leonard's request to let it be known that Ron Cornelius co-wrote Chelsea Hotel is herewith denied. I'm afraid a warm-hearted songwriter with a poor memory could too easily be exploited. Handwritten original drafts of the song, together with statements by impartial witnesses, will have to be presented before a final judgement can be made. Until then, Chelsea Hotel remains a song by Leonard Cohen, sung by him, played on guitar by him - describing an incident that happened to him. In any case, Mr Cornelius' claims, even if proven true, will likely have the reverse effect of what he seeks. Instead of gaining recognition as the co-writer of a very good song he will rather be remembered as a penny-pincher. If it is respect he so desperately yearns, he would do better to drop his claim. It makes him appear unattractively mean and grasping. Leonard says that apart from a chord change, he cannot remember Mr Cornelius helping him - and that is how the record will stand. As a footnote, I can add that Marianne propped a sick Leonard up in his bed. She put a pillow behind him. She took the guitar down from the wall and laid it across his lap. She fetched a pen and notepad from his desk and handed it to him. She brought him a mug of hot cocoa. She kissed him on the cheek. She opened the shutters and let him see the bird on a wire. Today she goes around proudly announcing that 'Bird on a Wire' is her song - is HER song! That is touching; it is a beautiful and complimentary thing to say. I wonder if Mr Cornelius can see the difference.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Geoffrey ~

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. Leonard [unlike some of us ] is not one inclined to argue... better to just let it go and alleviate all controversy. Any minor suggestions Cornelius may have made do not constitute a co-write. Leonard can write a song too well alone. The experience was Leonard's and the song is Leonard's. I, too, feel that greed and lust for recognition are what prompted this; and kind-heartedness and generosity are what concluded it. Good on you, Leonard, for your attitude. Shame on you, Ron, for co-opting Leonard's song.

~ Lizzy

[Young dr. Freud]

Let It Be Known

Saint Leonard strikes again!

I was wondering how Lizzy and Geoff could have the ungracious reaction they did. But upon re-reading I can now see how carefully Leonard couched his language in this little missive.

Instead of matter-of-factly coming right out and saying, "Yes, I had a talk with Ron and realized that my memory was faulty. It wasn't just a chord change. We did write the song together." Instead his phrasing leaves a little wiggle room for doubt.

Congrats to Lizzy and Geoff for picking up on it.

YdF