Three Years Later

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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TipperaryAnn
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by TipperaryAnn »

Vicomte wrote: " a singer that writes things such as "Give me crack and anal sex, Take the only tree that's left and stuff it up the hole in your culture" and sings about his time with Janis joplin and "giving me head on the unmade bed"
Good on you, Vicomte - there is a tough honesty about LC which I for one find appealing - DEFINITELY not all sweetness and light, as anyone who has read his novels and poetry will know. It has often puzzled me how the more gushing/ sentimental type of fan stomachs such lines!
Of course he has mellowed with age, as people tend to do - I wonder did he himself decide to substitute "careless" for "anal", for instance, or was he advised to do so in these more politically correct times - he is probably more easily influenced by others now than he was in those "less smooth" times when he was "cock of the walk" ! We are so lucky to have seen him perform at any of the very different stages of his life, but I would love to have been at those 1979 concerts.
By the way, I wonder what would Elvis be like now if he had survived...
Forget your perfect offering -
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by LisaLCFan »

Hi Vicomte,

Sorry, I should not have been so defensive, and I apologize for taking exception to your not-meant-to-be-rude post.

I do admit that I may occasionally be "thin-skinned" when I think (rightly or wrongly) that I or other LC fans have been insulted or otherwise slighted. However, that has no bearing whatsoever on my enjoyment of Leonard's wonderfully sexual imagery! I may sometimes be "gushing and sentimental" about LC (to borrow TipperaryAnn's comments), but I'm not sure why anyone would think that that would mean that I couldn't "handle" the graphic honesty with which Leonard writes and sings about sex. It is a direct result of my deep inner passions that I can happily accommodate both.

Cheers, all!

Lisa
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musicmania
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by musicmania »

Vicomte wrote:Thanks.

Other new(ish) fans I have spoken to over the years offer the same, or similar replies but there are several that have said, they much prefer him today (that can be verified when this site sometimes asks the question of whether they prefer LC now or earlier in his career
I've often heard fans from back in the day say they prefer him now so it is all down to personal preference. The way I see it the Leonard of back in the day created the Leonard of today!
TipperaryAnn wrote: Of course he has mellowed with age, as people tend to do - I wonder did he himself decide to substitute "careless" for "anal", for instance, or was he advised to do so in these more politically correct times
He sang the original line at the concert in Moscow last October so I'd hazard a guess he decided to substitute "careless" for "anal" himself. As we know Leonard constantly evolves his songs.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2

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Vicomte
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by Vicomte »

It was how you described LC in his early days, Ann, that stood LC out from many others that made me want to know more. I will admit here and now, that the early poems and books had me puzzled, I wasn't sure if I wanted to sit under a shaded tree and think deeply of what he meant from his words but he was different and his songs were what really made me a "fan".

I agree, "some" of the sentimentality seen on here doesn't easily collate with Cohen, him having had an "eventful life" and in the way he has spoken of it in books and in song. I think these days it is more due to his humility (shown on stage in the last tour) and the way he deals with fans, not always as such, almost Dylanesque in his outlook but we know depression played a large part in that.

The early concerts bare little resemblance to the last tour and to be honest, it has been so long it has been hard to remember just exactly how it was, unlike some others I have spoken with who are pretty good at remembering way, way back. Whether that is due to this forum prodding ones "grey matter", I don't know but although it has greatly helped me to recall certain events , some of the attended live gigs from yesteryear are very cloudy!

I think Elvis had already turned in to how he would have been for the rest of his life, not sure the big white glittery suits would have lasted the course though. ;-) I would like to imagine Leonard dancing on stage in that "get up", the photos of the folks faces in the front rows would have been great to witness :lol: ;-)
musicmania said:
The way I see it the Leonard of back in the day created the Leonard of today!
And my feelings, as I previously said.
Now and again I Iike to remember just how good he was, way back when. As I say, that is not meant to be rude but just politely putting it so some folks will see that L.C built, what people see today
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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TipperaryAnn
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by TipperaryAnn »

musicmania wrote:
He sang the original line at the concert in Moscow last October so I'd hazard a guess he decided to substitute "careless" for "anal" himself. As we know Leonard constantly evolves his songs.
That's interesting, musicmania - I wonder did he just forget and revert to the original, or did he figure that because of the language barrier nobody would notice the difference there! Although he might have known there would be some english speakers like yourself listening too...
Forget your perfect offering -
There is a crack in everything...
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musicmania
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by musicmania »

Listen to it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCRl7-Inuck
It isn't a great video but the sound is fine. I wasn't there but my friend was and it was very regimental. Concert had to begin and end at certain pre-determined times and there had to be a compulsory 30 minute interval. When we met Leonard his description of this concert was "That was a rough one" and I'm quoting his exact words there. When he said this and it was later pointed out to me that he had reverted to the original lyrics of The Future it made me wonder had he done it as an act of defiance maybe?
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2

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TipperaryAnn
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by TipperaryAnn »

Vicomte wrote:
The early concerts bare little resemblance to the last tour and to be honest, it has been so long it has been hard to remember just exactly how it was, unlike some others I have spoken with who are pretty good at remembering way, way back. Whether that is due to this forum prodding ones "grey matter", I don't know but although it has greatly helped me to recall certain events , some of the attended live gigs from yesteryear are very cloudy!
Vicomte, it would be so interesting to gather memories of those pre- 2008 concerts on a new thread, especially as you say some people remember a lot about them. I am surprised that so little is said on the Forum about the earlier concerts, or maybe they have been discussed and I just haven't found the place? I suppose all the excitement about the new tour took over, but now would be a perfect time for reminiscence!

PS I think you're right about Elvis - in a way he had grown old before his time, and probably would not have changed much later. Leonard in a white glittery outfit - the mind boggles! :lol: Although come to think of it, the thought of Elvis in suit and fedora is just as funny!
Forget your perfect offering -
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Cheshire gal
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by Cheshire gal »

I have just noticed this thread. Thank you Bev for the videos. There was quite a difference in Leonard's performance in both the 2008 and 2010 shows. I actually rather like the looser suits in early 2008, (very fiftyish) but he does look very smart in the later clothes..

I would love to hear about the early years from those lucky enough to have seen him then. I have listened to a few earlier concerts and he seemed very talkative and funny in his interaction with the audience. Can never understand how he got the reputation for being depressing.. I would never have said that, and his music was so great. He did not deserve it at all. :D

He has always had a great band and wonderful backup singers. I loved the early years of the violin. Absolutely great, and so it is really hard to chose which I prefer, as this past tour band and singers were fabulous also. What a predicament, to try and chose between them.

Please do give us some stories from the past. :D
'...and here's a man still working for your little smile' -Leonard Cohen
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Vicomte
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by Vicomte »

TipperaryAnn wrote:......................
Vicomte, it would be so interesting to gather memories of those pre- 2008 concerts on a new thread, especially as you say some people remember a lot about them. I am surprised that so little is said on the Forum about the earlier concerts, or maybe they have been discussed and I just haven't found the place? I suppose all the excitement about the new tour took over, but now would be a perfect time for reminiscence!

PS I think you're right about Elvis - in a way he had grown old before his time, and probably would not have changed much later. Leonard in a white glittery outfit - the mind boggles! :lol: Although come to think of it, the thought of Elvis in suit and fedora is just as funny!
I remember back to around 1967 sitting in a friends studio apartment in West London, having just read a book of poems by L.C and a friend was playing Songs of Leonard Cohen and to be honest, there was a bit of smoking going on and his music seemed to be telling stories, just as Dylan was doing. It seemed so right, so much of the time, the music has never left me............why? Who knows, it kinda still works on me I guess. Still struggle to convince people to just listen, Vicomtesse listened, it took her that same album to be moved by him.

And in 2009, we had family in our home in Brittany, it was late, a few drinks were taken, we had music playing in the background and our Niece noticed someone singing Hallelujah, not as she had heard before (you know, she had heard it for the first time on Ex Factor, or whatever it's called ) "Who is it", she said, I replied in astonishment (like you do when someone doesn't instantly recognise Leonard! ;-) ) it was Leonard Cohen; "Who" she said, then listened to the rest of the album............She was hooked, really she was and since then she been to Cohen gigs with us and has loved every minute. She has even been lucky enough to have her photo taken with him (along with Vicomtesse) and a photo the next day signed by L.C as well (Bitch, it took me years to just get a passing "hello" :lol: )

Would be nice if someone could start a thread on how it was and what they remember. I sometimes need a shake up of the grey matter and then I am away :lol: You know what I mean I'm sure, when friends sit a round just talking, the memories come flooding back and how many times in any stage of our life do we say, "oh I remember that, I had forgotten all about it"

C.G, the violin has been missed by us, Dino Soldo is brilliant but there are times that nothing can take the part of the haunting ability of a violin. As you are probably aware, there was going to be a violinist on the last tour but she couldn't be tied down by a lengthy tour. Perhaps if L.C was to tour to promote his latest album, he might find someone who has the time to play? Would be nice, it really would.

Favourite backing singers?

Well Perla Batalla and Julie Christensen I think take that award from me. Jennifer Warnes and Sharon Robinson in tandem were brilliant, as of course have the Webb Sisters been but the formers just take the nod for me.
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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Cheshire gal
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by Cheshire gal »

Yes Viscomte Julie Christensen and Perla Batalla showed a lot of 'passion' when they sang with L.C. :D
Love to see the videos Messalina rescued from concerts they performed with him. :lol: Especially when Julie sang 'Joan of Arc'. Great chemistry. Jennifer Warnes also did a fantastic job with that song.
'...and here's a man still working for your little smile' -Leonard Cohen
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B4real
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by B4real »

Vicomte wrote:Favourite backing singers?
Well Perla Batalla and Julie Christensen I think take that award from me. Jennifer Warnes and Sharon Robinson in tandem were brilliant, as of course have the Webb Sisters been but the formers just take the nod for me.
Me too Vicomte :D
Cheshire gal wrote: I loved the early years of the violin

ah Marie, absolutely! look here 8) viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20297
My favourite official CD is Field Commander Cohen and my favourite year is 1979.

(LIsa, I know you beg to differ about the violin, but just give it some time to let it play on your heart strings :lol: :razz:)

Also, I thought I would compare a few more videos from that first 2008 concert in Fredericton to the end of tour ones in Las Vegas and Oakland 2010 again. Thanks to RansomNoteMusic for the Fredericton ones.

Dance Me from Fredericton is the first song of the start of the tour in 2008. The visual is not the best but it’s important to have at least an audio of that first song. He is more animated and mobile in this one from Oakland 6th Dec 2010 (thank you Arlene – it’s a pearler!) and kneels to Xavier at the start of the song. Can anyone remember when the kneeling started?

Dance Me To The End Of Love:
Fredericton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqSM5rv50XY
Oakland 6.12.10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWXL9-bt5A

Who By Fire from Fredericton has Zavier’s intro at 2 mins. In the one from Las Vegas 11th Dec 2010 it has increased to over 4 and a half mins. Neil Larsen is more obvious and Roscoe’s bass takes over ¾ min ending the song. The song itself has increased in length by over 3 mins. Another superb video Albert!

Who By Fire:
Fredericton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRnzGmUT ... re=related
Las Vegas 11.11.10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuUgTxgoyaI

I’m Your Man from Fredericton has Leonard fairly stationery. The video ends before the song is finished but you can tell the audience is enthusiastic! In the one from Oakland 5th Dec 2010 (thank you Arlene – another pearler!) I just have to say that “I’ve never seen your eyes so wide” Ha, ha! There are more gestures and movement around the stage. Dino is more prominent. Near the end of the song Leonard raises his hat and says “I’ll wear an old man’s mask for you”. I actually prefer him without his hat. Now, I know some of you won’t agree but before this tour I’ve been used to him without it!

I’m Your Man:
Fredericton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGHrk83UBeI
Oakland 5.12.10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCsJsCYQcAI

I really like the idea that some of you have suggested about your memories before this last tour. It would be great. :D
Bev
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Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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musicmania
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by musicmania »

Thanks for this Bev. While I always love watching videos of past tours and seeing the differences to the last tour seeing this evolution during the actual tour is very interesting. I'd love a return of the violin for Dance me to the end of Love as I remember watching a video from the 80's and it was mind blowingly beautiful.
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Cheshire gal
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by Cheshire gal »

Hi Bev,

Thanks for showing the comparable videos from first and last shows. You can really see how L.C. felt more comfortable as the tour progressed. That video that Arlene posted of 'Dance me..' is stunningly beautiful (thanks Arlene :D ). I agree also with you Bev about 'Field Commander Cohen' 1979, that truly is a masterpiece. ' The Window ' with Raffi's violin is almost too good, if you know what I mean. Especially when you see the Rockpop video and also the video with Irving Layton and his wife listening to the song for the first time. It is haunting. 'The Guests' also just gets to you.

I can only imagine how thrilled the people at the Fredericton concert must have been to see Leonard for the first time after his long absence. It must have been an amazing night.

Marie
'...and here's a man still working for your little smile' -Leonard Cohen
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by LisaLCFan »

B4real wrote:(Lisa, I know you beg to differ about the violin, but just give it some time to let it play on your heart strings :lol: :razz:)
Bev, you remembered, how sweet of you! I have actually had a change of heart about the violin in Leonard's band(s), and I now adore those 79-80 recordings and concerts (which are the ones that I had previously had the most trouble getting into)! It has been very pleasant, and quite exciting, rediscovering Leonard's music from that time period, now that I hear it in a whole different way! :D

Cheers!
Lisa
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B4real
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Re: Three Years Later

Post by B4real »

Thanks Gwen, Marie and Lisa for your responses :D

I fear that I might have turned this thread into my "Bring Back The Violin" thread :lol: :razz:

Gwen, Yes it really is fascinating to watch how Leonard's music has evolved over the years. And Dance Me should have a violin playing because of what the song is actually about!

Marie, The Window is in my top ten forever :D

Oh Lisa, I'm so pleased that you have crossed over from the dark side ;-) As you know, that's the beauty of Leonard's words and music. The more you listen the more you want (need) to listen.

You know, the reason I found Leonard so compelling was the more I discovered about him the more I had to know. All through this discovery one thought has always remained in my mind. I have never heard of any public person being so honest with his life and to put that life down in poetry and songs in such an exceptional way is extraordinary. He gives you the good, bad and the ugly whether you are ready for it or not.

This is part of the message I wrote in the card we recently gave him in Vegas: "Time does not change us, it just unfolds us and thanks to you I am unfolding in an amazing way." May I and all of us continue to do so.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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