Thanks for the dance / baby?

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Anne-Marie
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Postby Anne-Marie » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:13 pm

"She is pregnant. Our love-making is sweet because of this. She will not have the child."

-End Of My Life In Art, page 285 of "Stranger Music"
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:46 am

Or, said otherwise ;

"One two three, one two three one."

How he is simple, efficient, never simplistic.

How lonely one is alone in this story.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:46 pm

Such a treat it would be
to be able to see
Leonard and Anjani
dance to their song.

Not on video, but in person...
to Leonard's recording
of his Anjani...
singing their song.

I would love it :) .


~ Lizzy
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:55 pm

:?

Not that one.

:(
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:19 pm

Well, I didn't actually mean to interrupt you two, Tchocolatl; however, I didn't want to start a new thread, either. This wish to see them dance to that song had been with me for awhile, so when I came across the "Thanks for the Dance . . . " thread yesterday morning, I placed it there.

With the baby situation in this poem, reading it brings questions of where/when/how Leonard's [conjectured] feelings about abortion coalesced... at least enough to include them in lyrics of his songs. Was it part of his religious upbringing and his family's views; had he always felt that way, without ever considering ~ at least too much ~ otherwise; or was it something that his real-life experience brought about? Here, he makes a simple statement of fact, "She will not have the child;" yet, contrapositioned with what's sweet with the pregnancy-potentialed activity of sex, I feel a poignancy in his final line that suggests an ambivalence on his part about this situation.

It would seem that his awareness of her carrying [the sacredness of] life inside her would make for the sweetness, which it certainly would; rather than the 'sweetness' suggesting the physical tenderness necessary to ensure the baby's safety, since the baby is to be destroyed, anyway. One wonders whether she was carrying his child or someone else's, since it's not stated who "she" is.

Some men favour abortion, and for them the sweetness, perhaps, wouldn't be compromised. This is a powerful three lines, which seem to end sadly for him.

This could also be read as a reflection backward, with the final line giving the outcome [even though it's stated in the future tense] unknown at the time of the sweetness of their lovemaking. Even miscarriage remains a possibility in this context.

This kind of situation could certainly crystallize a man's views toward abortion. If the child were wanted by the father, it would make this a very sweet time. The matter of factness of the outcome stands in stark contrast, and would not seem to be a factor in what made this time together sweet. Even if the child weren't his, being in this situation could have brought about some clarity and crystallization on abortion.

~ Lizzy
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:34 pm

Tchocolatl wrote::?

Not that one.

:(
I any case "that one" was you Lz. What did you think? I was talking about that dance in particular.

Yes. When we are on the ground of abortion, it could illustrate the "terrible power of the mother" so dear to Freud, for some men who would have wanted so much to father the child, it is difficult, it could bee seen as cruel for them. In nature some animals - like cats, for example, well, some females, they are eating some of their kittens sometimes, soon after their birth and nobody knows why exactly (at least nobody did not know why the last time i checked), the more popular theory is that she knows this one would have not made it, for some reason. Maybe it is this. Maybe the cat was just hungry and needs food/energy (after the effort of having give birth) to maintain her life and take care of the rest of bunch, in order for life - in a larger sense - to continue? In any case, a male cat will always kill kittens, even his own if he encounter them in his territory. So the female has to prevent the father to come close from them and vice versa.
This is a terrible subject, human abortion anyway. This has to do with the problem of ethic regarding the human embryo. Very complex. Now it is even more complex since the reproduction in vitro. There is millions of embryos in the laboratories in the world that could developp if some people somewhere take the decision. Or not. So. It is pretty much the same thing to me as to take the decision of an abortion or a pregnancy. And nobody blame the "terrible power of science". Of course, they are men in power, men of power, men with power, powerful men who are at the head of the destiny of those embryos, so they can't be called bitches, witches, etc. But Ey! It is all another debate. Like the one of euthanasia. Another completely different subject.

To come back to the song, in the case of the song, it seems to me that they are experiencing a miscarriage, though.

This is why I don't wish them to have to dance this one in particular.
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:05 pm

I guess it's about making sure you get your insult across, Tc; however, with that in mind, you seem to have missed that it made it 'across' ~ hence, my own follow-up comment of:
"Well, I didn't actually mean to interrupt you two, Tchocolatl . . . "
Of course, I knew you meant me :roll: ~ you are Tc and I am Lizzy, right :wink: ?

"What did you think? I was talking about that dance in particular"?
Uh... that's a stretch, but since you're asking... the answer is no.

The rest of your response is interesting, however. As for their dancing it, they've already done it on video. My wish is to watch them dance to this song, in person, since the song is so laden with meaning and their dancing so beautiful. My mind escapes to the possibility of a ballroom in Berlin, where the Event attendees could surround the dance floor, to watch Leonard and Anjani dance 8) . On the video, they are so full of love and grace.

~ Lizzy
LaurieAK
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Postby LaurieAK » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:23 pm

Are you implying that Leonard and Anjani are going to be in Berlin? This is how rumors get started.

Fantasy or not, it seems more than in appropriate to want to gawk at two individuals as if they are exhibition pieces and not just people on a dance floor. No matter how exquisite inside and out one imagines them to be.

It also seems inappropriate to contemplate publicly Leonard's or anyone elses private views on abortion. And even worse taste to contemplate whether or not a woman (whoever she may be) has had an abortion or a miscarriage.

Speak your own mind about it. Talk about your own experiences. But for gawds sake, don't fantasize and speculate publicly about others. Sooo inappropriate.

L
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:45 pm

Laurie ~

Well, you'll feel better [no doubt :wink: ] to know that discussion of such matters wasn't initiated here by me... however, I presume you're including all who have made mention of possibilities in your snare net, right :wink: ?

As for the dreams I have, they're my own and my own to speculate on, publicly or privately, without the Dream Police showing up with a warrant. I would think that any reasonable-minded person would understand the nature of my comment and not jump to the conclusions you have. Of course, the place to have been would've been when it was originally being filmed. Since I missed that, my dream is forced to take another direction. I doubt that either Leonard or Anjani would condemn me for such a wish, or expressing it. I think of the traditional, wedding dance and "I hear that we're married . . . one two three... one two three... one... "

As for this:
Speak your own mind about it. Talk about your own experiences. But for gawds sake, don't fantasize and speculate publicly about others.
This is not for you to dictate. "Sooo inappropriate" to try. Since you've taken this on as your duty, however, I can tell you that you're slipping... beginning with other albums and writings, you have a huge backlog of chastisement recipients waiting.

For the benefit of those [other than Laurie :wink: ~ this message will cost you $200.00 USD pre-paid :wink: ] seriously concerned with rumours ~ As far as I know, or as far as I know that anyone knows, Leonard and Anjani are NOT coming to Berlin.

~ Lizzy :D
Young dr. Freud
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Postby Young dr. Freud » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:45 pm

David,

Please reread Tchoc's post again.
In another century, when pregancy and parenthood were not planned and children arrived like another year and child mortality rate was so high, people were not attached to their children (only adults were considering to have a value of some sort) and it was very bad behaviour for a mother to be sad for the death of a baby or a child. Mothers were expected not to complain about the loss at all.
She was not discussing protocols about what was socially acceptable in the past. She was making blanket statements that parents were callously not attached to their valueless dead children and that their cultures and societies were complicit in this. Complete BS.


YdF
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:19 pm

Wow. This is too much. I'm sorry Lz, but everything does not turn around you. I was really talking about the subject of this topic, and I was really care that you were not hurted by a misunderstanding. For the rest, as usual you are yourself - only able to think about you, yourself, and you again, thinking that you are the center of the universe, arranging the reality in your own way, be it, me as the insulting character in your play, or be it Leonard and Anjani dancing a macabre dance for your sole pleasure. Nothing new. But at the risk of repeating myself : only you are believing the story you invent for yourself.

David, Ydf is a specialist. A specialist in fighting in the mud. As he did not have success in having me doing his favorite sport with him, he tries to hook you. Now that you know, you do what you want. In any case, have fun! 8)

Laurie, are you lost? Nobody discussed the personal opinion of Cohen and/or Thomas about anything here. I discussed mine, dear.
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Postby LaurieAK » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:39 pm

Tc~

whatsherface went on and on with conjecture about how LC feels about abortion and such... But, yes I am pretty much always lost. Thanks for asking.

As for mother child bonding, it is a force of nature. No culture or society could mandate an "attitude" or expectation that would be seriously expected to be upheld. Just because a "usual suspect" of being controversional (aka ydf) questions your blanket statement to the contrary about this is not good cause to dismiss his (or anyone elses) question of such an outrageous claim.

I'd like to hear what planet your claim took place on myself...
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:40 pm

You'll need to spell this one out, Tc. Not getting what you're saying ~ at all. As usual, the minimum quota of insults, but beyond that...

~ Lizzy
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:44 pm

:lol:
whatsherface
:lol:
This would be me. I'm sure of it... just sure of it :wink: .
:lol:

How could Leonard and Anjani have sunk to video such "macabre" as a waltz together. Or does seeing something on video suddenly contort into macabre upon seeing it in person? Amazing.


~ Lizzy
LaurieAK
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Postby LaurieAK » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:03 pm

shit. I've dropped from 5 to 4 unnecessary and meaningless smilies. I'm crushed...but impressed that you managed to squeeze out four of them out of one word.

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