Are ticket prices too high?

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harald
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Are ticket prices too high?

Postby harald » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:55 pm

How do you know the correct price for a ticket?
Because if you don´t, you can hardly say a price is too high.

I learnt it like this:
If the product can´t be sold the price might be too high.
If the product is sold out very soon the price seems to be too low.

You don´t like this method of price-finding?
What would you suggest? A democratic committee? A council of wise men? Your belly? My belly?

You see, my stand is a liberal one:
The organizers can offer tickets for any price they fancy – it is their good right.
I have the good right to accept the offer or turn it down.

We are no sheep, we cannot be ripped off.
We in full deliberation buy tickets at the price asked or leave it.

Yes, concerts have become expensive.
Many things I´d like to have are. So what?

For me concerts of Mr Cohen are a treasure well worth their price.
That´s why I´ll go to as many concerts as my budget allows.

And:
I am not part of the “idle rich” (why this connection: idle/rich, John?).
I am neither part of the idle poor (might qualify for poor depending on your view, but not for idle).

Else:
Most of us have to travel to see Mr Cohen live.
Seeing the costs for transport, hotel etc. it does not make so much difference if the concert is some twenty or fifty Euros more expensive or not.

One more:
Yes, Mr Cohen has become kind of “en vogue” with all the pluses and minuses that come with it.
Should we yearn for the times when he was esteemed only by a circle of “insiders”?
Or shouldn´t we rather be proud and confident that he finally gets the greater acceptance he always deserved?

Had to say this, no offence, I wish everyone a good chance to see Mr Cohen live, best, Harald
1979 Kassel / 1980 Munich / 2008 Munich, Hamburg / 2009 Cologne, Antwerp, Lisbon, Budapest, Barcelona / 2010 Salzburg, Florence, Marseille, Stuttgart, Bratislava / 2012 Ghent, Berlin, Verona, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon / 2013 Paris, Mannheim, Rome, Prague, Pula, Zuerich, Amsterdam
2011 Haiger / 2014 Dublin / 2015 Hydra, Viladrau / 2016 Amsterdam / 2017 Hydra, Balaton
cohenadmirer
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby cohenadmirer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:42 pm

Too high ?
In a sense yes -they are high and at a level which is dificult for the budget of many people who would like to see Leonard .
In another sense no - the promoters are probably quite confident that they are at levels which will still sell out !
The vast majority of people who have decided to empty their pockets leave concerts feeling that the money was well spent
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
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TipperaryAnn
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby TipperaryAnn » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:07 pm

Are ticket prices too high? What a silly question!
How long is a piece of string...

If you have loads of money, no they're not.
if you have very little money, yes they are.
It's all relative, as Einstein would say.
Forget your perfect offering -
There is a crack in everything...
Vicomte
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby Vicomte » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:15 am

TipperaryAnn wrote: It's all relative, as Einstein would say.

I'm in good company then, well said Mr Einstein.
;-)

Harald.
Too high ?
In a sense yes -they are high and at a level which is difficult for the budget of many people who would like to see Leonard .

No need to mention the agents/promoters, they pitch the price of tickets knowing very well they will make a handsome profit, they could pitch it less but greed is greed ( even LC inferred to this last year) especially when no one knows for sure when LC finally stops touring ! ......The bottom line has to be about fans/followers and or admirers and what they can pay but it will never be so now

How do you know the correct price for a ticket? Because if you don´t, you can hardly say a price is too high.

That is a bizarre thing to believe and worthy of a French philosophy class :lol:

I learnt it like this:
If the product can´t be sold the price might be too high.
If the product is sold out very soon the price seems to be too low.
Well my money is on there have been tickets still available at many shows, the art though of the promoters/agents, is to shorten the length of the large arena/stadium and close off some areas, all we will know is that it was a sell out but anyone with an eye to an arena will know of areas not being used, even sheeting large areas over with black sheeting. So did the tickets of cheaper seats sell out or were they never available? which leaves the pricing in the air, doesn't it?

You don´t like this method of price-finding?
What would you suggest? A democratic committee? A council of wise men? Your belly? My belly?

A roulette table, or a game of cribbage to decide................ well you started it :lol:


We are no sheep, we cannot be ripped off. We in full deliberation buy tickets at the price asked or leave it.

True and I am leaving buying at places I can easily reach, which I have never done before, yet I probably have more money than before, so why, well because I sincerely believe the prices are just too high these days

Yes, concerts have become expensive. Many things I´d like to have are. So what?

No, not all concerts have become expensive, I can see many good singers/groups/musicians for a lot less. Personally I would like the majority of people who like Leonard's music to be able to see him, not just those with the most cash available but that would be impractical from a promoters/agents/managements, where sadly cash is King

For me concerts of Mr Cohen are a treasure well worth their price. That´s why I´ll go to as many concerts as my budget allows.

So you believe the tickets are priced correctly then, good for you, I don't so fair enough........... égalité then....


Most of us have to travel to see Mr Cohen live.
Seeing the costs for transport, hotel etc. it does not make so much difference if the concert is some twenty or fifty Euros more expensive or not.

What about €200 plus though? Cost of ferry,or air ticket, hotel and meals would easily topple €20-50


Should we yearn for the times when he was esteemed only by a circle of “insiders”?

But none of us back then thought of ourselves as insiders, still don't, why should we, not anyone's fault that the "fandom" was a lot smaller then. LC was just another singer/artist/performer that we had thought worth seeing when possible. Same now, if I see a newcomer, I will go and see them, just as we did back in the day. The only thing I yearn for is more sensible thoughts of the man and his "art" and not so much fawning beacuse all I think of then is the likes of Englebert, Daniel wotsit and Cliff Richard etc


Or shouldn´t we rather be proud and confident that he finally gets the greater acceptance he always deserved?

Well yes, so that's begs the question then, where was everybody then, not that it matters, if one finds LC tonight, or even 45 years ago, he is still a man to go and listen to but sadly it comes back to prices again and who is financially fortunate to be able to afford to go.

Had to say this, no offence, I wish everyone a good chance to see Mr Cohen live, best, Harald

Snap, best, Vicomte ;-)
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2017 and fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
John Etherington
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby John Etherington » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:38 pm

One thing I will agree with is that Harald's stand is a liberal one, because these days "liberalism" is more closely allied to Conservatism and capitalism! :)
Last edited by John Etherington on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UrPal
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby UrPal » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:27 pm

Funnily enough, in Daniel Kahneman's bestseller "Thinking, Fast and Slow" the sale and purchase of concert tickets is given as an example, along with wine collecting, of an area in which the "rational agent" model in economic theory explodes (or at least modified by prospect theory), because the value of the acquired item is measured primarily by the recipient in terms of the anticipation of loss/missed opportunity. Well worth a read as a possible alternative to fretting over whether or not you'll secure tickets to that latest show or die trying.
John Etherington
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby John Etherington » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:14 pm

Ur Pal - In the present climate that makes perfect sense, and thus it gets exploited it to the hilt. One particularly unfortunate example is the case of Wilko Johnson, who has terminal cancer. When the tickets for his farewell tour went on sale last week, they were a reasonable £20 each. The tour sold out immediately, and within minutes tickets were selling on sites like Viagogo and "Get Me In" for nearly £200 each. There's currently a major petition being sent to the government about this. I only hope that when Leonard does an official farewell tour, the promoters find a fair system of ticket distribution that won't result in this kind of horror story.
UrPal
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby UrPal » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:22 am

I'm sorry to hear about Wilko - and astonished to hear of his "elated" response to being diagnosed as terminally ill. Long may that continue.

As regards the punters and ticket prices, I guess it's a relatively "small beer" issue in the round, but I hope his best fans get to see his last tour without burdensome financial strain, and that he and his family are more rewarded than the ticket agents as he takes his final bow.

Of course, some things can't be measured in money.....
Chema
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby Chema » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:17 pm

The only thing I know is that the tickets to Leonard Cohen's concerts are more and more expensive.
At this price I can demand the best concerts in my life, no matter if I sit in the front or the back row.
I wonder if they are worth the price...
LHHUNTER
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby LHHUNTER » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:18 pm

One thing to remember is that LC is on stage for almost twice as long as most other artists. Perhaps if the show was shorter the tickets would be cheaper ;-)
UrPal
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby UrPal » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:34 pm

...not to mention the fact that Cohen is about as old now as Sinatra when he performed his last concerts, and in relative terms the tickets are probably a lot cheaper.
Basque
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby Basque » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:32 pm

Hi guys..

The market will dictate if the prices are too high. As you say, if the tickets are sold, then there's your answer. My big issue is everyone/touts just piling in to buy tickets and then flogging them straight away at inflated prices. And don't just say that's life because promoters and artists DO have a say in how tickets are sold if they so choose. If you bought a ticket for Radiohead at O2 last year you had to take ID and credit card and ticket to concert to get in. Sure, this isn't totally foolproof but at least they made an effort to ensure their real fans got the tickets. Leonard could make a similar effort if he wanted to and so could promoters but basically, all they're interested in is the money. Is this sacrilege to state this? Hardly. Leonard should get involved in this kind of thing if he has principles. :!:
John Etherington
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby John Etherington » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:16 pm

Let's face it -handling financial matters is not Leonard's particular forte! However, I would hope that he now uses discrimination in appointing the people who handle financially- related issues. Indeed, artists such as Radiohead and Tom Waits have been known to come up with reasonably fool-proof schemes to protect ticket sales.

Returning to whether ticket prices are too high, I would say that they are certainly tending this way. I doubt whether many would disagree that tickets priced over £100 (for the very best) are overpriced. One of the pleasures of attending a Leonard show used to be taking someone who hadn't seen him before, but these days that's pretty much out of the question. Although they have not become mainstream in the same way as Leonard, many of his contemporaries still charge a reasonable £20 - £30 for their concerts (for instance Judy Collins, Buffy Saint Marie, and Eric Andersen). Meanwhile, Brian Wilson who plays a long show with a similarly large band of talented musicians, has charged an average £50-£60 over a ten-year period for his concerts (with the London ones being at the excellent Royal Festival Hall). I mentioned on the Forum in 2011 that I was able to attend nine other concerts that year by name artists, including Adam Cohen and the Webb Sisters, for the price of one top-price Leonard Cohen ticket.

Obviously there is a certain amount of subjectivity with the prices of ticket sales. If someone regards a concert as a one-off annual event that they take a family to (rather like a holiday) then they may be prepared to splash out. However, I imagine that like myself most people tend to average at least one gig a month, and attend maybe a couple of big name concerts each year. For the majority of people who regularly support music this way, paying £100 for a concert ticket is a major outlay.
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leonardthecat
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby leonardthecat » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Leonard Cohen ticket prices started at £25 for the 2013 London O2 concert. You don't have to pay over £100 to see him. I know these tickets are for seats way up in the balcony, but it's still a Leonard Cohen concert, and that is a very reasonable price.
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Mabeanie1
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Re: Are ticket prices too high?

Postby Mabeanie1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:39 pm

I had a look for tickets for two shows by "legends" which were just going on sale at the LG Arena in Birmingham but declined to buy on the basis of price. A ticket for Fleetwood Mac was going to cost me £137 with charges and a floor ticket for Eric Clapton (designated a "platinum ticket") would have cost me £152. By that standard, £88 for a good floor ticket for Leonard's show at the O2 seems pretty reasonable. I was also impressed that there was no price increase from when Leonard last played there in 2008.

Wendy

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