Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

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UrPal
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby UrPal » Tue May 12, 2009 2:17 pm

The news indicates that Pope Benedict is visiting Israel at the moment. Does the Pope's presence in the country constitute a tacit approval of its recent military actions?

How does a person's presence in a country doing what they do for a living constitute a political statement?

Does the fact that Leonard Cohen happens to be Jewish make a difference to the answer to that question as against the Pope? If so, why?
Lawrence W
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby Lawrence W » Wed May 13, 2009 1:19 pm

The difference between the pope going to Israel and Cohen going to Israel… The fact that Cohen is Jewish is not a factor as public figures from all religious backgrounds are asked not to go. The Israeli media treats any public figure who goes as a validation of its government which is all the more reason for non-attendance. It’s the government, not the state that cannot, in good conscience be validated as long as it continues to do what it is doing to Palestinians - clearly ethnic cleansing as defined by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. The pope says his going is a peace pilgrimage and he seems to be trying to achieve reconciliation between Christians, Jews and Muslims. As such, he’s addressing part of the problem but ignoring the main cause of the conflict – Israel’s occupation and persecution of Palestinians – a secular, not a religious problem. His trip, however, is drawing attention to what is taking place so good may come of it.
DAJGAB
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby DAJGAB » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:08 am

to the writer who states that he is surprised that L.C will play "after the horrer of Gaza " i presume that he is refering to the approximately 10,000 rockets fired indiscriminately into border cities in israel from the islamofascist horrer of gaza. it is sad that an artist of his stature felt a need for "political correctness" and decided to make his concert there a benefit rather then just another stop on his world tour. Once again , the civilized world bows to the forces of terror, religious fanaticisim and barbarism
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby seadove » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 pm

DAJGAB wrote:to the writer who states that he is surprised that L.C will play "after the horrer of Gaza " i presume that he is refering to the approximately 10,000 rockets fired indiscriminately into border cities in israel from the islamofascist horrer of gaza. it is sad that an artist of his stature felt a need for "political correctness" and decided to make his concert there a benefit rather then just another stop on his world tour. Once again , the civilized world bows to the forces of terror, religious fanaticisim and barbarism
This thread makes me laugh, but having read it twice it also makes me sad. You guys have no idea whatsoever about Cohen's feelings toward Judaism, Israel, the Middle East or even his left elbow.

1. Anything that he writes can easily fit in favor of the Palestinians and the Israelis.

2. I have not seen any literature in any place regarding Cohen uttering a word neither in favor nor against both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

3. It's a fact that he came to play for the Israeli troops.

4. Cohen was bullied toward donating the net income of the Israeli show in favor of peace groups here in the MIddle East. Please don't make it sound like he's doing it on his own free will. If you guys will give him a second choice he would draw back his urge to give away his well earned income.

And finally:

5. Leave the old man alone. He has no idea of what's really going on in the region. He is surrounded by advisers of his profession and personal managers who, on the best estimate, give him a small briefing about this boycot bullshit, saw that he was in a very awkward situation, meaning that if he decides not to give the Tel Aviv show the Alamo war will be nothing compared to the shit that he'll get from the Israelis for the rest of his life.

Dig????
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby seadove » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:25 pm

And:

6. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. We have argued out a 46 page long thread (in the politics section) in favor or against Cohen performing in Tel Aviv, and if we are true fans of Leonard Cohen we really should have supported him to give the show, because now this silly argument had landed on his pockets in which he will have no choice but to donate money that no one knows what "actual" use will be used with the money. Here are my theories in this aspect:

a) We all know that Cohen was swindled off with more than USD 100,000,000 (one hundred million dollars) from that Kelly woman.

b) It's quite clear that Cohen is making a world tour so as to cover certain financial losses in his life.

c) Because of those UK boycot idiots Cohen had no choice but to depart from those Tel Aviv earnings. I claim, once again, that it was against his will and lack of choice.

Altogether I really wish that Cohen would keep this money to himself. :cry:
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hydriot
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby hydriot » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:35 am

seadove wrote:4. Cohen was bullied toward donating the net income of the Israeli show ...

5. Leave the old man alone. He has no idea of what's really going on in the region...
If you actually knew Leonard you would know he is about as easy to bully as a sand-dune. If you push against him, he trickles through your fingers, mocking your efforts.

Why on earth do you imagine he doesn't know what is going on in the region? What evidence do you have for that strange idea? He's always seemed to me to be perfectly well informed about all his venues.
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
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bridger15
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby bridger15 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:56 pm

hydriot wrote:If you actually knew Leonard you would know he is about as easy to bully as a sand-dune. If you push against him, he trickles through your fingers, mocking your efforts.
Exquisite poetic imagery
2009-San Diego|Los Ang|Nashville|St Louis|Kansas City|LVegas|San Jose
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remote1
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby remote1 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:24 pm

bridger15 wrote:
hydriot wrote:If you actually knew Leonard you would know he is about as easy to bully as a sand-dune. If you push against him, he trickles through your fingers, mocking your efforts.
Exquisite poetic imagery
I too was completely charmed by your image! :)
"We are so lightly here"
seadove
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby seadove » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:14 pm

hydriot wrote:
seadove wrote:4. Cohen was bullied
If you actually knew Leonard you would know
he is about as easy to bully as a sand-dune.
If you push against him,
he trickles through your fingers,
mocking your efforts.

Dear Hydriot.

Can you please put a tune to the above mentioned lyrics? These are words of beauty! ;-)
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby seadove » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:08 pm

hydriot wrote:
seadove wrote:4. Cohen was bullied toward donating the net income of the Israeli show ...

5. Leave the old man alone. He has no idea of what's really going on in the region...
If you actually knew Leonard you would know he is about as easy to bully as a sand-dune. If you push against him, he trickles through your fingers, mocking your efforts.

Why on earth do you imagine he doesn't know what is going on in the region? What evidence do you have for that strange idea? He's always seemed to me to be perfectly well informed about all his venues.
Yes, Actually I know him very well. He was bullied before, and swindled off a sum of more than 100 million dollars (you read lips? 100..... hundred...... million.....dollars) by that Kelly woman or what ever her name is. He tried to recover the money in courts but that did not help.

:(
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hydriot
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby hydriot » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:03 pm

seadove wrote: Yes, Actually I know him very well. He was bullied before, and swindled off a sum of more than 100 million dollars (you read lips? 100..... hundred...... million.....dollars) by that Kelly woman or what ever her name is.
There is no evidence that you know Leonard very well and plenty that you do not know him at all. He was not swindled out of more than a hundred million dollars but out of (according to his accountants in 2005) about $8.4m. Eventually the court awarded him $9.5m compensation. There are many references to the embezzlement in this forum, but the clearest is here: viewtopic.php?p=47600#p47600 .

Her name is Kelley Lynch, and at one time she was a very significant person in Leonard's life.

All of this you would know if you were truly a friend of Leonard.
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
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Womanfromaroom
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby Womanfromaroom » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:17 pm

And, anyhow, what do you mean by "old man"?! He is younger in body and spirit than certain other people will ever be...
"You thought that it could never happen / to all the people that you became"...
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seadove
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby seadove » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:09 am

I may have mixed up my figures, of which I am sorry, but still, any person can be "lynched" out of his earnings, doesn't matter if he is ordinary young or young at heart.

Still, my argument was that his recent venture of what he calls a "world tour" was exactly how it is. A world tour, and Israel was included in that venture. He played before in Israel without him having to donate any money toward any cause. I remember even back in April of this year that he was coming here to play in September, but the exact date was not fixed. So it started out as Israel being part of that world tour. And then all of a sudden Leonard announced that he would give a concert in Ramallah. That was not enough for them and they refused it, so he suggested that he will donate the money to peace institutes. And suddenly they kept their mouths shut when they heard about money. Isn't that strange?

The rogues came in and made such a lot of fuss about him playing. If he was not jewish they might have picked on Madonna, who knows, because she studies kaballah. But fact is that their tactic of picking on him have come about with his earnings going to them. If I would have believed that the money would "really" go toward a peace cause I would have kept my peace and shut my trap, but honestly, I know them toooooooooooooooooo well.

And about me knowing Leonard or not, well that should be a differant argument. If you would read about the various threads here you will find that I said I know his music since far back as before 1971-72 . I even attended his 1973 concert in the Sports Stadium in Yad Eliyahu Tel Aviv, I sat so very far away from him yet I enjoyed the show. Even my kids have got the Leonard Cohen bug from me and we are all going to the show on the 26th of September. I practically know most of his songs by heart and I chant them like a mantra. My CDs are everywhere, at home, in both my cars and also at work. I always used to compare Leonard Cohen, if Madonna gets a 10 (on the scale of 1 to 10) Lennie gets 18!!!!

And I am not mocking Cohen of his old age. He is far too dear for me to do this. I am merely trying to point out that the rogues are picking on him when really they should be making afforts to behave themselves and make peace with us.

I rest my case.
rachterry
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby rachterry » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:14 pm

In this case action speaks louder than words. Leonard was always ready to lend a hand to Israel defeat her intractable enemy. He was able to discern between the culprit and the victim, Israel. Indeed he was there when needed. While he cares for anyone who suffer, he always believed that Israel is there by right not by sufferance as Winston Churchill stated in the early 20th century.

Allow me to republish a counter to an "open letter" addressed to LC by my friend the late Salomon Benzimra, who wrote a book about the Jewish people's rights to the land of Israel, See here: https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Peoples-R ... B0065WZM14, which LC received at the time refuting Ms. Naor et al falsehoods. Ms. Naor and others tried to convince Leonard not to preform in Israel but to no avail except Leonard offered to preform for the Arabs/Palestinians in Ramallah but they rejected him.

So here is the counter letter Salomon wrote to Ms. Naor:

Mrs. Dorothy Naor
Subject: Your "Open Letter to leonard Cohen" August 4, 2009
http://www.protection-palestine.org/spi ... rticle7654

August 14, 2009
Dear Madam Naor,

I read your "open letter to Leonard Cohen," you have published, probably knowingly in a website dedicated to the "Protection of the Palestinian People." But regardless of the site, what counts is the argument that you develop in your letter. At the outset, let me say that I have rarely read such a bunch of falsehoods, ignorance, disfigurements of truth and unfounded prejudice.

With all the respect I may have for your age and your "thesis from the University of Tel Aviv," I will tell you simply that you do not know what you mean, or worse, you have been irretrievably indoctrinated by rampant propaganda of that "Palestinian people" that you defend so ardently.

I am almost certain that nothing could convince someone who has suffered like you, such brainwashing. Therefore, I do not appesantirai me. But briefly, I remind you the following FACTS, which I invite you to think about:

1. You refer to the "occupation" and "colonization" Israel five times in a text of only 1000 words. I presume you are referring to the West Bank, except for "Palestine" as a whole. This is not surprising: there is the same leitmotiv in the Palestinian propaganda that has been harped you for years. But please remove your blinders and understand that, under international law, Palestine whole returns to the Jewish people, which was decided by the community of nations at the San Remo Conference in 1920 and endorsed, unanimously in the Mandate for Palestine in 1922. For details, please inquire by reading "The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel in International Law", a book of 750 pages written by Master Howard Grief, lawyer in Jerusalem.

2. It is obvious that once the myth of the "occupation" and "colonization" has been unmasked, the entire Palestinian propaganda (and your blind support for its grotesque fabrications) will collapse like a house of cards ( and your foolish arguments). You quote extensively the concept of "ethnic cleansing", again making you the faithful mouthpiece of all Palestinians who cheered Ilan Pappe and his rag entitled "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine". But know that the so-called "historian" Pappe boasts itself to tamper with the facts in favor of ideology. This is what he himself said in an interview in Brussels newspaper Le Soir in 1999. And then there is the question of how you can support your accusation of "ethnic cleansing" while there are 1.2 million Israeli Arabs. But that would be asking too much to exercise the most basic logic.

3. You are referring to "TWELVE wars and military campaigns" of Israel confront. Very just. But have you asked to know the causes? Who attacked first in the new state of Israel in May 1948? Who created the casus belli on the eve of the Six Day War in 1967? Which violated the cease-fire in October 1973? Which triggered attacks against the civilian population of Galilee on the eve of the first Lebanon war? But if you make no distinction between aggressor and victim, if you have no notion of cause and effect, and if you have only a distorted vision of the most firmly established facts, then all your nonsense are allowed .

Without wasting more time trying to remember the facts, I will say this to Mr. Leonard Cohen. Your tour in Israel will be welcome and you will be greeted warmly by all, very many, who appreciate your talent.

Mr. Cohen, I'm sure you are alert enough to see in Ms. Naor letter embittered compilation of untruths and self-contempt that the best response and reply by cold silence and continue your tour Israel as you had planned.

And that feels snotty, fly it!

cordially
Solomon Benzimra, P.Eng.
Toronto, Canada
sbenzi@sympatico.ca
rachterry
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Re: Leonard Cohen positions on zionism/Israel

Postby rachterry » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:47 pm

"As much as I like Cohen and his music, I cannot, in good conscience feel good about him any longer. Going to Israel and singing at this time, after what Israel did in Gaza and continues to do, is the same, in my mind, as performing in Germany during the Nazi era. The careers of entertainers suffered for doing this and I think Cohen deserves similar treatment, sadly, unless he changes his mind."

Shame on you for equating Israel right to defend herself with the Nazis.

Get your facts straight! Read here:
http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2009/03 ... civilians/

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