Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Leonard Cohen's recent albums - share your views with others!
User avatar
peter danielsen
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 pm

Postby peter danielsen » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:43 am

Me to. I think some of the old stuff, could work very well with LC alone with his guitar. Some of the old songs would work being just recited with chords, like "dress rehersal rag", "love calls you by your name", "the Buthcher" "suzanne" "famous Blue Raincoat" and so on and so on

Peter
Cohen Kid
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Holland

Postby Cohen Kid » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:28 pm

Is it true that leonard never plays guitar anymore?
A sip of wine, a cigarette
And then it's time to go
I tidied up the kitchenette
I tuned the old banjo
-10 new songs, Boogie Street
User avatar
tomsakic
Posts: 5245
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:12 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Postby tomsakic » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:16 am

He played it on Dear Heather's Nightingale.
imaginary friend
Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:09 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby imaginary friend » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:47 am

This reply is to an old post by johnny7moons on Sun Nov 06, 2005

Hello j7m,

I only joined the forum last week so just read your wonderfully-written post (especially enjoyable was your description of LC's voice as a "subterranean rumble"). But I don't share your dissent at all, for me Dear Heather is a superb album, full of "eureka!" moments. I would be interested to know whether your opinion of the CD has changed over the past years.

Re. "We'll No More Go A-Roving": I loved Byron from the moment I met him hundreds of years ago in a high school literature class. It seems to me that both Byron and Leonard share the same superb intellect and wit, both were "Ladies' Men", and both have been intensely critiqued by peers of lesser talent. Irving Layton, to whom the song is dedicated was somewhat of a bad boy too, and this song is a fitting tribute to all three renegades.

Re. "Because Of": The first time I heard this I acknowledged, with chagrin, that I'd been busted.

Re. "On That Day": The tone that appears to have "nothing to say" about this momentous event, seems deliberate to me, chiding the west for its apathy; we all were stunned, but how many of us actually did anything passionate about it – went crazy or joined the army? (Neither of which I would consider to be constructive responses all the same...)

Lastly re. "Dear Heather" (the track): A wicked little diversion, as LC writes a note to Heather and pronounces it out as he's writing, then spells it out as he's writing, obsessively.

Are you still active on the forum? Can you direct me to more of your posts?
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:00 am

Hi Imaginary Friend ~

Welcome to the Forum :D . I haven't seen Johnny7Moons post here in awhile, but that doesn't mean he's not reading or won't be along soon. If you want to get a head start and read his other postings, just click on his name and it will take you to his profile. Once there, you'll see on the lower right of the screen where you can click [I've forgotten the exact wording] to read all of his previous postings, in reverse order. I hope this helps.

Also in his profile area, you'll find a Send PM function. He may have it set up to where he's notified in his email account if/when he receives a PM from here. That may result in his coming here, as well. I'm not sure if he has a Send Email function enabled. It seems as though he doesn't. However, one of the above ought to result in your making contact.

By the way, I really like "Dear Heather," too.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
imaginary friend
Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:09 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby imaginary friend » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:15 am

Thank you Lizzytish,

I found Johnny's previous posts :)

IF
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25339
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby lizzytysh » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:40 pm

You're welcome, IF.

He tended to not write much, but he also tended to write well.


~ Lizzy
"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."
~ Oscar Wilde
bruinsy19
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:45 am

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby bruinsy19 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:10 pm

I haven't heard the album in it's entirety but didn't care for the songs I did hear but it is probably a result of comparing it to Ten New Songs.I think Ten New Songs is as good as anything he has ever done.
johnny7moons
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 12:59 am

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby johnny7moons » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:31 pm

hi imaginary, sorry i took so long to find my way back to this thread and respond, and thanks for the undeservedly-flattering comments.

to be honest, i listened to dear heather through a couple of times, and it's been lurking unplayed in the recesses of my computer's memory since then - apart from 'the faith', which still finds its way onto my mp3 player every now and then. i guess i should revisit it before the tour comes around, and see if i can find some common ground with it, as i presume he'll be doing some of the DH material. i've got higher hopes for newer stuff, though - i didn't really relish the supper-club atmosphere on 'blue alert' but i thought some of the lyrics were pretty fine, and there's a new lyric he's recited once or twice (i'll meet you on this corner where there used to be a street) which made my hair stand on end, the way it hasn't since i first heard the future (though i confess i had considerably more hair back then).

i looked back at my previous post and i see i was a bit dismissive of 'ten new songs' - this one has actually grown on me a lot since then. maybe i'm just trailing a few years behind the great man's vision - maybe i'll reach 'dear heather' in a few more years. reminds me of a story about how miles davis was once accosted by a fan (circa 'bitches brew), who said something along the lines of, i've always loved your stuff miles, but i just don't understand this loud, electric stuff you've done recently... and miles spat back at him, 'well, you want me to WAIT for you, mother****er?'

not that our man would ever be so discourteous, i'm sure.
User avatar
linda_lakeside
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby linda_lakeside » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:17 am

Hello all,

I've just dropped in to find that a lot of the older threads have been pulled out again (surely they weren't here the entire time) Sherry mentioned how the passage of time, however brief, can change ones entire perspective on a CD, and so it is with Dear Heather with me. By chance, I just pulled it out for listening while reading and cruising the net.

When it first came out, I had great difficulty with it, as many did. Now, I hear it with a different ear. I think it's a great and diverse collection, and if he wants to be 'experimental' so be it. Remember when Jazz Police was the big 'controversy' re: his experimentation? I think Anjani's contribution to Dear Heather is nothing short of ethereal. I don't know how he's going to make it thru this tour though. I think some of us are half expecting to hear the Cohen of say, Cohen Live, of The Future, but it won't and can't be that way. His induction into the Hall of Fame has given us a glimpse of what's to come, I think. With all the stringed instruments, maybe an FCC with Leonard 'reciting' a lot of his songs/poems. A lot of open air festivals, small venues, makes me think that the sets will be short. I hope I'm wrong. In any event, a lot of his older material is just begging to be performed in recital I think. (Don't Pass Me By - A Disgrace) - is a song that we've not heard (or I haven't) in years,but it would work well now. FBR. And DH. I keep the 'old' version of Leonard in my heart, but don't expect a new and vital incarnation. Watching him sing Avalanche from San Sebastian the other night, I realize those days are gone. AS the recent collaboration with Glass would indicate. *sigh* DH, may very well be his last studio CD. Learn to love it. Recital is fine, but we want him to sing. I don't think there's too much more of that left.

I'm kind of with something Tom said a while ago, about Leonard just being an old poet, and never mind the touring. I'd love to read a new book of poetry, while listening to the old CD's. We can't go back, and neither can Leonard. I hope not too many are expecting a concert of days gone by. IT should be interesting. To say the least.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
User avatar
linda_lakeside
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby linda_lakeside » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:20 am

Nice to see you again, Imaginary Friend. Enjoy and 'report'. 8) :D
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
User avatar
kwills
Posts: 2293
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby kwills » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:39 am

I actually think that Dear Heather is one of his best albums,especially the song Undertow and Morning Glory.Look At Me Leonard puts a huge smile on my face as does the song Dear Heather.Ten New Songs is alright but a bit same sounding not much variety in the tunes,maybe I should listen to it more.Anyway, I hope he makes a live album of his recent tour,because he was awesome! :D
Last edited by kwills on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Manchester 19th June/Cardiff 8th Nov
User avatar
linda_lakeside
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby linda_lakeside » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:43 am

Yes, we all have our favourites. Some days its' 'this one', tomorrow it's 'that one', in the end, we find that his entire catalogue has, at one time, been on our daily 'list of discs to play'. Time changes our perceptions. It's changed his own perceptions of which songs will make the set list. And so it goes with Leonard. Leave a CD long enough, and it will soon become the favourite, all over again. And I never even had a bitch with DOALM! It just doesn't get as much rotation. Yet.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
User avatar
Casey Butler
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:53 pm

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby Casey Butler » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:31 am

"Dear Heather" is like the greatest "rock opera" ever written.

You will all be very upset with Leonard (for a few days or so) when you find out what it's all about. You'll be wondering why he didn't say more...

But he's said it all, again and again.

Then you'll be asking yourself, why in the world wouldn't I let myself HEAR more?

Why wouldn't I go where he (or she) wrote from, long before this, to where the Poet's have been? What veiled my eyes and covered my ears when he stood right before me.

Walt Whitman wrote:

"For braver, stronger, more devoted men--(a special laurel ere I go,
"to life's war's chosen ones,
"The cannoneers of song and thought--the great artillerists--the
"foremost leaders, captains of the soul:)
"As soldier from an ended war return'd--As traveler out of myriads,
"to the long procession retrospective,
"Thanks--joyful thanks!--a soldier's, traveler's thanks."

So, do you suppose "On That Day" is connected to "Undertow", "Morning Glory", and "Villanelle For Our Time" somehow? What about "There For You"?

What about "The Faith", what the hell could that be all about?

Where is Leonard on that last stanza?

Does anyone here give a damn about Leanord, his life's work, or his life's message?

<SCREAM>

Sigh. I apologize.

Casey
User avatar
linda_lakeside
Posts: 3857
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea..

Re: criticisms of "Dear Heather"

Postby linda_lakeside » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:56 am

Naturally people care. This forum has been here for a long time (in one incarnation or another). These are not new questions, nor will the answers we have shed much more light much light. That's why people came here in the first place, to talk about Leonard's work - not the women he was dating (although that made it into the mix as well). He's a poet who's hard to pin down. Hard to pigeon hole (which we DO NOT want to do, as so much is up for interpretation - different interpretations by different people - on different days.

Leonard is often a personal journey - like DOALM - if I had a dollar for every time someone said "I hated it, now it's my favourite" - my financial burden would be easier to bear.

Myself, I've stopped with the analyzing, and just stayed with the listening. As Leonard said about his own work: "The poems speak for themselves". I guess that would be a good place to start with 'what did he mean'? At this point, it's been rehashed so many times, that when people start asking themselves 'those' questions, it is, again, a personal journey...

I'm sure - quite sure, you'll find someone to pick at the bones with, a lot of people have already been down that road, and are just enjoying what they hear. Hear, hear! That's where I'm at. And there need not be a connection. On The Future, did the title song have much to do with 'Be for Real'? Many questions, but only speculation for answers. Come to think of it "Be For Real" was on 10 NS - but the same non-rules apply. "The poems speak for themselves" (Yes, I know he didn't 'write' 'Be for Real' - but why include it in The Future?). A difficult songwriter/poet on some days, on others, a person can say "Yeah, I get it now". And back again - over and over.... just enjoy. Let the meaning take care of itself. He has likely seen his own songs/poems from a different perspective over the years. Hence the ever changing verses. The tweaking of songs years later. And the bit about 'falling into the masterpiece' - to how many parts of his life can we attribute that line to? 'I'll stand right here before the Lord of Song,with nothing on my tongue but 'Light as the Breeze'. Sorry, I couldn't help - but I got my ya-ya's out. A soldier's traveler's thanks, perhaps. How about Shelley's Ozymandias?
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.

Return to “Live in London, Dear Heather, The Essential Leonard Cohen, Ten New Songs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest