On That Day

Leonard Cohen's recent albums - share your views with others!
Patyou
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On That Day

Postby Patyou » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:35 pm

Hello Everybody

I'm French, and I don't get the real sense of the song On that Day. Can you, help me understanding Leonard's opinion on this matter ? :?:
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:08 pm

Welcome to the Forum, Patyou :D . I'm so glad to see someone who's French visiting here. Do you live there?

With regard to "On That Day" [and you may have found it already] ~ if you'll go to the Dear Heather section, and check the "Have you heard Dear Heather" and other threads there, you'll find discussion[s] we've had on it there. Perhaps, someone will be kind enough to provide you with any other links to discussions of it. I believe it's in that same section where we discussed aspects of that song based on the lyrics alone, before we actually heard the song. I believe Lightning started a thread on it, as well.

If I'm wrong on any of this, it's because I'm getting older :wink: .

~ Lizzy
Patyou
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Postby Patyou » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:22 pm

Hello Lizzy

I'm glad to be here with all of you. I really live in France, isn'it funny ?

Thanks for your help but I could not find anything about the possible meaning of the last verse "did you go crazy or did you report". :?:

Bye

Patyou
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lizzytysh
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Postby lizzytysh » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:02 am

Can someone please help Patyou out here on this? Joe, maybe? I'm so not-good at these recaps. I'm also in the midst of heavy-duty catch-up; not Heinz variety.
jurica
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Postby jurica » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:34 pm

Patyou wrote:Thanks for your help but I could not find anything about the possible meaning of the last verse "did you go crazy or did you report"
HA! someone downloaded an illegal version without the booklet!

'report . -intr.
3. To present oneself: report for duty
-The American Heritage Dictionary'

...it's in the booklet, so - buy the album, and everything will become clear as day.

Leonard seem to have developed some sort of faith in holy wars (see The Future), which contradicts his former belives (The Butcher, Song of Isaac). it's not his official opinion or anything like that - i just got that impression from his more recent work.

i think On That Day is quite unfair towards non-Americans (irronic treatmant trough 'they hate us of old' to 'our women unveiled'), and frankly sort of ignorant - the attack on New York was hardly inspired by religious causes or 'war of cultures' (another ignorant theory).
Patyou
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Postby Patyou » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:22 pm

hello jurica

Nobody allows you to pretend i did'nt buy the record. I have the booklet, i saw the dictionary explanation. I still don't understand the meaning of the verse. Sorry for my english lacks...


Pat
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
jurica
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Postby jurica » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:23 pm

he he i was judging by myself.

it means more or less 'did you start to panic, or did you join with the firemen, policemen and other people who were helping (perhaps even - did you join the army to once and for all stop the terrorists)?'

does that help?

for a soldier or a policeman 'to report for duty' means that he should come to his station and ask if he is needed.

can't put it any simpler. there are several French people whose English is very good, and i think Lightning is a native English speaker who can speak Frenc very well also - so they may help more than I can.
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linmag
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Postby linmag » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 am

I don't usually do this this way round, and it could all turn out to be a terrible mistake, but once the idea had taken root, I just had to see if I could do it. So with apologies all round, here is my literal translation of On That Day.

Ce Jour-là

Il y en a qui disent
Que nous l'avons mérité
A cause de nos péchés envers Dieu
A cause de nos crimes mondains

Moi, je n'en sais rien
J'assure la permanence, c'est tout
Depuis ce jour-là
Où ils ont blessé New York

Il y en a qui disent
Qu'on nous haït depuis longtemps
(A cause de) Nos femmes à visage nu
Nos esclaves et notre or

Moi, je n'en sais rien
J'assure la permanence, c'est tout
Mais dis-moi un peu
Je ne t'en poursuivrai pas en justice

Es-tu devenu fou
Ou t'es-tu présenté
Ce jour-là
Ce jour-là
Où ils ont blessé New York


If I have made any major blunders, will some kind person please let me know?
Last edited by linmag on Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Linda

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Patyou
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Postby Patyou » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:15 am

:D Thanks everybody

The translations is luminous

And Jurica's explanation too (sorry for my nervousness)

To report = to ask if help is needed.

Thanks and regards

Pat
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:55 am

linmag with the Asciitable you can have whatever accent you could dream of! :D
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:13 am

What do you mean "How is it working?" Oh! Press "alt" (press the left "alt" button - not the one at the right end of the keyboard) and in the meantime press the numbers (seen to the left of the character you want) on the pad numbers of the kb.

More questions ¿
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Tchocolatl
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Postby Tchocolatl » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:37 am

jurica wrote:i think On That Day is quite unfair towards non-Americans (irronic treatmant trough 'they hate us of old' to 'our women unveiled'), and frankly sort of ignorant - the attack on New York was hardly inspired by religious causes or 'war of cultures' (another ignorant theory).
Hem... Jurica, if I may...

On that day they wounded NY, "they" were not "non-Americans", "they" were those people who did it, terrorists, do I have to remimber you, these men who crashed the planes where the first to be killed while doing it, and they where dying in the name of Allah, very certain that 500 virgins (500 v/for 1 man, the deal was, ey they were not fooled he?) were waiting for them in heaven after their death as heroes. You can think this is stupid but the fact is some people are fighting reliously in this world and that was the song is saying.

And maybe you should listen to the song again, LC never said that he was believing this. (What is the use to downloaded it in advance if it is not to listen to it better than others?) :wink:

He said "Some people say" because, in fact, people were really saying this around here, "they are hating us of old, etc." what you said.

This is just a detail of this song. I could go with more of the lyrics but I prefer to restrain to this specific detail you came with.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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tomsakic
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Postby tomsakic » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:57 am

Recently I was wathcing the documentary about the Bush administration - was it ABC TV station which suported Bush, using the demagogic way to persuade people that something is commonly accepted truth with sentence "some people say" (then continuing to the not so accepted truth or something what the government wanted people to believe) - the authors of that documentary counted "some people say" in 24 hour on that TV - it was said more tha few thousand times I believe.

I understand Patyou's problems, and I'm still having the same one with that song. Namely, I always understand "or" as "or the first one, or the second one" (at least it's so on Croatian), so the two sides must to be in contrast. So, "did you go crazy or did you report". As I know what means "to report" (and that dictionary enty doesn't add nothing new to me - or my English is really only superficial), and I understood "did you go crazy" literary. So everybody are saying tome that it means exactly what it said, literary. So what's the negative part of it? If it's positive "to report" "on that day" because, well, that's what you do when you're attacked (later you ask why), "did you go crazy" - I thought - is supposed to mean "go crazy of happines" (so you are one of Them :? )
Well, if it is not the negative side of the story, why "to start panic" is supposed to be negative? I mean, he actually says:

"But answer me this
I won’t take you to court
Did you go crazy
Or did you report
On that day
They wounded New York"

So if this two sides around or aren't supposed to be opposite, why he wont' take us to court - that mean that We were supposed to do one of those two things, and one for sure wasn't right.
So I still don't know :oops:
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tomsakic
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Postby tomsakic » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:03 pm

Patyou, on French Leonard Cohen Site you have the translations of all songs, made by Graeme Allwright:
http://www.leonardcohensite.com/dearheather/songs.htm


Ce jour-là

Il y a des gens qui disent
On a ce qu'on mérite
Pour les péchés contre Dieu
Et pour les crimes dans le monde

Je ne saurais pas
Je tiens seulement la forteresse
Depuis le jour
Qu'ils ont blessé New York

Il y a des gens qui disent
Ils nous haïssent depuis des temps anciens
Nos femmes sans voiles
Nos esclaves et notre or

Je ne saurais pas
Je tiens seulement la forteresse
Mais répondez moi
Je ne vous attaquerai pas en justice

Est-ce que vous êtes devenu fou
Ou avez-vous fait un reportage
Ce jour-là
Ce jour-là
Quand ils ont blessé New York
Patyou
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Postby Patyou » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:17 pm

Hello

Everything was clear but now with Graeme Allwright translation, it is confused again. He translated "report" by "reportage" that means arcticle on a newspaper or a tv movie. It is a journalism affair. It is not at all the sense of "asking if help is needed".

Pat :?
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

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