Beautiful Losers?

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
Strenia
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Beautiful Losers?

Postby Strenia » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:35 pm

Hello everyone. I really wanted to read the book "Beautiful Losers" or even "The Favorite Game". Does anyone have one of these books as a pdf file, which they could send to me? I would greatly appreciate it if you would. Please let me know. Thank you very much!!
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mat james
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby mat james » Tue May 01, 2012 3:10 pm

This request has come up before, Strenia.
Take a look below.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5370

Mat.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby LisaLCFan » Tue May 01, 2012 9:02 pm

Strenia wrote:Hello everyone. I really wanted to read the book "Beautiful Losers" or even "The Favorite Game". Does anyone have one of these books as a pdf file, which they could send to me? I would greatly appreciate it if you would. Please let me know. Thank you very much!!
These books are currently in print, so I suggest that you buy them, they should be available through almost any book store (or at most libraries). You could also probably get used copies very easily through any online used book seller.
beto
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby beto » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:20 pm

I'm reading Beautiful Losers right now for the first time! I'm into Leonard since mid 90's, I always loved his music and lyrics; but I thought it would be necessary to read the stuff before "that" Leonard.
Well, I'm really disappointed right now.... what can I do? I can't finish to read this book! Even if it's named Argentina on it (The closer as I can stand from Mr Cohen!!)
I hope you can understand me...
Regards!
Cate
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Cate » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:49 pm

I wonder if you made it to the end Beto?

I think I understand what you mean. It’s a very graphic book, painful at times and the humour is sometimes a little – off. It’s definitely experimental. You can open this book at any page and you’re going to find something interesting, shocking or beautiful – often a combination of all three. The characters (or character if they are the same person) are all broken and messed up but even the most unlikable of them is still lovable

I’m not sure if you’ve read the Favourite Game yet – it’s much more a traditional style of book. If you’re interested in any of his poetry books I’d start right at the beginning with “let us compare mythologies”

Beto – I’m not sure if you’ve seen this before but here is a recitation of one of the passages of the book. The reader (our geoffrey) gives an excellent interpretation right beforehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqhlxhp2 ... e=youtu.be
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Geoffrey
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Geoffrey » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:41 pm

yes, argentina does figure quite strongly in 'beautiful losers'. it is used as the location of the hotel where the danish vibrator came to life. but the story, though amazing it be, comes secondary to the language, the order in which leonard pressed the keys on his typewriter. the subject matter is less important. an inspired writer is capable of describing even a fly climbing a wall in the most imaginatively exhilarating way. the language comes first, the story second. thank you for the plug, cate. i read all of your posts with great admiration, but lack the confidence to join in. -gx
paracelsus
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby paracelsus » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:08 pm

I am compiling a sort of chronology of the 1960s. Does anyone know the exact date that "Beautiful Losers" was published when it first came out in 1966?
Athnuachan
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Location: Ireland

Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Athnuachan » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:09 pm

Do any of you actually like Beautiful losers? I'm very fond of The Favourite Game, but Beautiful Losers...Yuch!!!
Ring the bells that still can ring...
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abby
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby abby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Beautiful Losers been my favorite book for 17 years.
Cate
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Cate » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:14 am

Athnuachan wrote:Do any of you actually like Beautiful losers?
yes

In 2005 Beautiful Losers was one of 5 books chosen for Canada Reads (a popular book competition).
Here's a link (I hope it works outside of Canada) - http://www.cbc.ca/books/canadareads/arc ... index.html
if you scroll down a little you'll come to links, at 11:45 of day one you'll hear an introduction and small discussion of the book.
On day 2 it gets voted off right away (to the shock of everyone), but there is a very good discussion of the book. It's not very long, maybe 6 minutes.


Rufus Wainright was originally going to defend/champion the book. I suspect that it probably would have gone further if he had.
Athnuachan
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Athnuachan » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:04 pm

Thank you, Cate - interesting. The woman promoting it didn't sound too enthusiastic about it herself!
I can see why it might appeal to men as it's like an adolescent's sex fantasy - interesting that it was women who voted it off here.
There is of course some good writing but for me that doesn't compensate for the lack of characterisation (who could care about those nonentities?) and the juvenile attitude to women.
Ring the bells that still can ring...
JayS
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby JayS » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:36 pm

This novel actually set my own writing voice free...not in the manner of copying his style, but with the sudden knowledge that writing doesn't have to obey what your English teacher taught you about sentence structure, proper descriptive, and all that fun stuff. I highly recommend this novel, if for no other reason than its utter contrast (beautiful prose sections against harsh words and far reaching themes). I love this book. Very Avante Garde! I wonder what Leonard thinks about F. all of these years later!
Athnuachan
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Athnuachan » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:14 pm

JayS wrote:This novel actually set my own writing voice free...not in the manner of copying his style, but with the sudden knowledge that writing doesn't have to obey what your English teacher taught you about sentence structure, proper descriptive, and all that fun stuff.
Yes, there are many such "writers " out there who ignore the basic tenets of communication.
I studiously avoid them.
At least Cohen had the grace to acknowledge in later years (in his preface to the Chinese edition of "Beautiful Losers" ) that this drug-fuelled novel was more of a "sunstroke" than a novel!
Ring the bells that still can ring...
Tchocolatl
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Tchocolatl » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:10 am

[quote=Athnuachan](...) At least Cohen had the grace to acknowledge in later years (in his preface to the Chinese edition of "Beautiful Losers" ) that this drug-fuelled novel was more of a "sunstroke" than a novel![/quote]

The way you are understanding Leonard Cohen when there is no music to his word, you better keep reading beautiful people, by this I mean the ones who write by the book (by this I mean the ones who follow your rules) and stick to the musical side of the artist. There is enough there anyway to fill many lifetimes.

Tastes and colors are not to be discussed, I know, but you know, you may not like the novel, but your judgment about it is not a condamnation at all of this artwork. The impressionists received some comments exactly like this. Van Gogh was also accused of not being a good painter. My, he had no technic, that guy, he was adding layers of painting that were caking on the support, that was not neat, not correct, offending, this is not how good painters, real painters do. All the ones that nobody knows the name now. If you see what I mean. 8) :D
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Cate
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Re: Beautiful Losers?

Postby Cate » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:39 pm

Thank you, Cate - interesting. The woman promoting it didn't sound too enthusiastic about it herself!
I can see why it might appeal to men as it's like an adolescent's sex fantasy - interesting that it was women who voted it off here.
There is of course some good writing but for me that doesn't compensate for the lack of characterisation (who could care about those nonentities?) and the juvenile attitude to women.
Well the woman promoting it was a working mom who was dropped into it at the last minute after Rufus Wainwright had to pull out. Just for the record, one of the 3 to vote for it was the man. He thought it was to famous and might overshadow the other books.
~~

You can't convince somebody to like something that they don't. I could tell you how wonderful it is when chocolate melts in your mouth but if you don't have a taste for chocolate I'll never convince you.

Beautiful Losers is a beautiful book - to me. It’s also disturbing, offensive, at times adolescent and sexiest (sorry Mr. Cohen), but
it is beautiful. It explores; relationships in new ways, pain, being lost, being alone, loyalties and love. They are right that the female characters don’t get flushed out very well, though I think Edith makes a great deal more sense then I (the main character) The main love story here really is one of friendship between I and F, so it makes sense that we 'see' more of them.

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