So long Marianne

Debate on Leonard Cohen's poetry (and novels), both published and unpublished. Song lyrics may also be discussed here.
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mat james
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So long Marianne

Postby mat james » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:57 am

Oh, you are really such a pretty one.
I would like to dedicate this thread to Marianne.
I found this beautiful photo of her and her son,(link below) when she was a young Mrs Jensen, 1960.
Perhaps you have a photo or a story of this lovely muse. This photo was taken before Leonard was a romantic link in her life. He was just one of the "artists" creating/writing/painting/weaving and so on, on Hydra.
And check out the other great photos of "Artists in Hydra (Time 1960) on this link.
There are a few beautiful surprises.
Regards, Mat J.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 05ad932b73

Do you think that is Leonard in the background of her photo?? Probably not. :o

So Long Marianne (by Leonard Cohen)

Come over to the window, my little darling,
I'd like to try to read your palm.
I used to think I was some kind of Gypsy boy
before I let you take me home.
Now so long, Marianne, it's time that we began
to laugh and cry and cry and laugh about it all again.

Well you know that I love to live with you,
but you make me forget so very much.
I forget to pray for the angels
and then the angels forget to pray for us.

Now so long, Marianne, it's time that we began ...

We met when we were almost young
deep in the green lilac park.
You held on to me like I was a crucifix,
as we went kneeling through the dark.

Oh so long, Marianne, it's time that we began ...

Your letters they all say that you're beside me now.
Then why do I feel alone?
I'm standing on a ledge and your fine spider web
is fastening my ankle to a stone.

Now so long, Marianne, it's time that we began ...

For now I need your hidden love.
I'm cold as a new razor blade.
You left when I told you I was curious,
I never said that I was brave.

Oh so long, Marianne, it's time that we began ...

Oh, you are really such a pretty one.
I see you've gone and changed your name again.
And just when I climbed this whole mountainside,
to wash my eyelids in the rain!

Oh so long, Marianne, it's time that we began ...
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
seadove
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby seadove » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:59 pm

Erm... Hello?

The song was already dedicated. ;-)
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mat james
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby mat james » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:07 am

surely there is room for one more admirer, seadove,
even if he is just a cut and paste
con-man
;-)
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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B4real
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby B4real » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:34 pm

There is another (last) verse to this song -

Your eyes, I forget your eyes
Your body is at home in every sea
How come you gave your news to everyone
when you said it was a secret just for me

So long, Marianne
it's time that we began
to laugh and cry and cry and laugh
about it all again


end

Has anyone heard this verse included at any concerts over the years? Do you have any thoughts on interpretation?

That is certainly a wonderful photo - full of feeling :)

and here are some more:
Leonard-and-Marianne.jpg
Be for real. Free yourself to find the real Self ~~ Me
Happiness is like learning the violin, the more you practice it the more it comes to you ~~ Me
Without the heart, there can be no understanding between the hand and the mind ~~ Gore Vidal
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mat james
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby mat james » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:02 am

B4real,
thanks for the photos and the extra verse.

Why don't you offer an interpretation and then I'll have a go if I think I can add anything interesting.
We are all guessing in this interpretation game 8) :) .

Regards, Mat.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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LisaLCFan
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby LisaLCFan » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:52 am

Regarding the verse mentioned by B4real, I was thinking about this just yesterday, because I was listening to the BBC (1968) recording, on which this verse is sung (it also appeared, I believe, in the 1993 tour, and maybe in 1988).

I think I heard/saw a youtube video from last year in which Leonard sang this verse. I am imaging this, or can someone verify this?
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friscogrl
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby friscogrl » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:03 am

Hi Lisa, I remember Leonard singing these lyrics in San Jose. Albert Noonan has a video up on youtube.

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LisaLCFan
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby LisaLCFan » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:28 am

Thanks Marsha! I knew I'd seen it! I'll go check it out (again!).

Oh, and I was in error about the BBC concert of 1968. Leonard did sing an unusual verse there, but it was this one:

If you leave, where will I keep you then?
In my heart, as some men say?
And I who was born to love everyone,
Why should I keep you so far away?


The 1993 version I am thinking of (with B4real's lyrics) also included Julie and Perla singing this:

Here comes the morning boat,
There goes the evening train,
There goes Marianne now,
To wave goodbye again.


I love this song insanely, so I listen to it a lot, in every version I can get my hands on!

(And, they pronounce it "MarianNE" with four syllables, which is how the real woman's name is pronounced.)
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby TineDoes » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:34 am

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16949

B4real. Leonard Cohen sang the stansa you mentioned in Girona 2009. View above topic.

Thanks for the photos.
"There’s no forsaking what you love ...."

Rotterdam 2008; Antwerpen, Dublin 2009; Gent 2x, Lille , Las Vegas 2x 2010, Gent, Amsterdam, Dublin 2x 2012, Antwerp, Berlin, Rotterdam 2013
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Elainduel
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby Elainduel » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:28 pm

B4real wrote:There is another (last) verse to this song -

Your eyes, I forget your eyes
Your body is at home in every sea
How come you gave your news to everyone
when you said it was a secret just for me[/attachment]
Wow, guys, thanks for this and the other verses, I've never heard them before! But I see no-one has offered any interpretations yet? :D I'll give you mine!

I found this stanza especially interesting, because I think he maybe actually confesses in here that's he's still in love with Marianne? I mean, So Long Marianne is after all pretty much about him telling us how wonderful he and Marianne USED to be and what all went wrong, and why it's time to put an and to the relationship. Sure, we can read between the lines that he still admires Marianne, but here he actually says that he still can't get her out of her mind. Your eyes, I forget your eyes: your body is at home in every sea. First thought that came to my mind is that Cohen means that all the seas of the world (=can be also understood that simply everywhere, because in a way there is only one sea) remind him of her eyes, he sees her eyes and body everywhere. Sea is quite often used metaphora for eyes (surface of the sea and eyes both hide a deep, deep, mysterious world; the huge underwater space and the human soul), and it would be quite natural for Cohen to associate sea with Marianne, since they spent so much time together by the sea in Greece.

How come you gave your news to everyone when you said it was a secret just for me. Like in every stanza of Marianne, Cohen says which didn't work. I think we all know this feeling; you hope you're something real special for your loved one, someone who he/she tells things nobody else hears; but it just doesn't go that way very often....
"And everything depends upon how near you sleep to me..."
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B4real
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby B4real » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:30 am

Thank you everyone for all your info and I'm sorry I haven't been back to check this thread since March :oops:

I was just going to post two extra verses but I see it has already been done, but I'll give you some dates and no doubt there are some more -

(this first and last verse was sung in concert on 25.8.93 at Berlin both sung by Julie Christensen and Perla Batala not Leonard and the first verse was also sung on 28.6.88 at Bergen)

First verse:
Here comes the morning boat
Here comes the evening train
There goes Marianne now
To wave goodbye again

Last verse:
Your eyes, I forget your eyes
Your body is at home in every sea
How come you gave your news to everyone
When you said it was a secret just for me

And as you know, another verse as below put on youtube by somewhat_nifty our forum member, from the BBC show 1968:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE6wBBrTMEs

If you leave where will I keep you then?
In my heart as some men say
And I who was born to love everyone
Why should I keep you so far away

So long Marianne, it’s time that we began……

Today I have just finished watching the Reykjavik concert in 1988 on DVD and the girls sang that first verse there too, which, incidentally reminded me to add it here and I'm so horribly late to do so :(

Mat, you are so much better at this "guessing game" than me and I really enjoy your analysis of Leonard's words. I'm more at home with visual arts. Elainduel that is a fair assessment of the situation.

(and if someone can advise me how to stop this post I'm trying to type from jumping around - I have to stop now because I can't see or change a thing :cry: I would appreciate it)
Be for real. Free yourself to find the real Self ~~ Me
Happiness is like learning the violin, the more you practice it the more it comes to you ~~ Me
Without the heart, there can be no understanding between the hand and the mind ~~ Gore Vidal
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B4real
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby B4real » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:39 am

Mat,

Thought you might appreciate this drawing of Marianne by Leonard. I think he drew it in the early sixties 8)
marianne.jpg
It's a case of less is more - he has wanted to capture the essence of her (so to speak) ;-)
Be for real. Free yourself to find the real Self ~~ Me
Happiness is like learning the violin, the more you practice it the more it comes to you ~~ Me
Without the heart, there can be no understanding between the hand and the mind ~~ Gore Vidal
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby kaye » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:08 am

Its beautiful. Whatever people say i find it beautiful.
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mat james
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby mat james » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:12 am

yes,
less is more.

Below is link to an interview with Mariane which is linked (by "kalinowt") on another thread.

http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/marianne2006.html.

MARIANNE: "This relationship was a gift to me. And a gift for Leonard, I might also add, not to underestimate myself completely. And that's what it was. However, I think it has been sort of an opener for the rest of life for us both, for better or worse. Just this morning I was reading, a few short lines, you know, which you can read a couple of every day, where I repeat and repeat this about it being through the hardest blows in life that you really have the chance to move on, as it were. Out of the sorrow, you know.

What is the distance between weeping and laughter? I mean, it is the whole of that… It's good on one side, and it's bad on the other side. I mean, when it's dark it's dark because light is gone. And when it's light then darkness is gone. But it is the same thing."

Enjoy,
Mat.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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mat james
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Re: So long Marianne

Postby mat james » Sun May 01, 2011 2:43 pm

Wow!
I just stumbled on this great little clip.
Irving Layton does a reading of "Death of a Ladies Man" which leads into some great shots of Marianne; an unusual rendition of the song about her and a short comment by Leonard on why he writes. What a gem of a clip.
Take a look; it's a beauty.
Maybe you have already viewed it; it's still worth another look ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lWmvfcefAE&NR=1

Enjoy,
Mat.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.

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